So, they finally made a decision.
I realise I am out of kilter with my blogmates. I know why they are saying what they are saying, and I can only reiterate what I said yesterday.
Without the protective umbrella of a no-fly zone, many thousands of Libyans will die. Badly. A multi-national force, including Arab countries, will now provide that umbrella and give the rebels a chance. It is a couple of weeks late but finally they made the right decision.
Standing by was never an option. The anti-Gadaffi forces are human beings. To merely observe their slaughter, when we are quite able to step in and reduce, or even stop it completely, was wrong. History will say that we waited too long. But there is nothing we can do about that now.
To knock out his radar, keep his aircraft on the ground, and perhaps deal with some of those artillery batteries should be the order of the day. No mission creep, no putting in foreign troops for decades to come.
Even the fight up a little. That is all that is needed here. The rebels have passion, and they have determination. They may not have the skills and the experience to engage with professional forces but if we can remove the threat from the skies, it will help enormously.
Never forget that we are dealing with a vicious bastard who has no empathy for his citizens. None whatsoever. The Libyan people need a helping hand. It is the humane thing to do. I am pleased.
Within minutes of that piece appearing yesterday, I had over thirty visits from your glorious government. Seems they took my advice to heart. Pity they don't listen to my other ramblings.
And yes, I know some will see this as hypocrisy. Openly supporting a decision your government has made. I reconcile that hypocrisy with the knowledge that my many friends there may be protected against this monster called Gadaffi.
"Helping the Taliban fight the Soviets" and the Persian/Iranian "revolution" spring immediately to mind....
Oh dear... MUAMMAR GADDAFI'S son has said that Libya helped finance Nicolas Sarkozy's successful election campaign in 2007 and demanded the French President return the money to "the Libyan people".
Is Libya about to feel the scorn of an ungrateful Frenchman? Perhaps that's one thing we still have in common with Gaddafi...
Also... that think tank of integrity that is the UN, will be considering Syria as the replacement for Libya on the United Nations Human Rights Council.
I think it's the first time I haven't agreed with you Capt.
I'm sorry but an anti democratic regime like the EU has no right to intercede here.
The UN consists of The OIC which is a permanent delegation of 57 muslim member states. Quite a few of these have an airforce which is quite capable of maintaining the "no fly" zone over Libya.
I just see what will happen, thousands of innocent people will be murdered and the West, particularly the UK will get the blame again.
We, the people, will suffer in the end. It's us that will be threatened by lunatic terrorists telling us to leave yet another muslim country alone. It is the British taxpayer that will fund this charade of a war.
I'm sick to death of British people defending other countries freedom fighters, what about our freedoms?
P.S. Couldn't we just send Charlie Veitch over there to give Gaddafi a hug?
Not sure about this, Captain. Col. Gadaffi once materially supported our home-grown rebels in Ireland, which was definitely A Very Bad Thing, but it would have possibly been worse if Libyan fighter jets had appeared and shot down helicopters, strafed Aldershot etc etc. If Gadaffi was wrong at the time in supplying military assistance to rebels in another country when the inevitable consequence was increased murder and mayhem, then surely the possibility exists that we may be wrong now. I suspect that the only result will be the deaths of Libyan servicemen, rebels, loyalists and likely some of our own men, who will be doing their duty as best they can in our newly-shrivelled airforce.
I hope I'm wrong and that bombing and invasion will bring not bereavement but peace. It nearly always does, doesn't it?
Ok - it's a decision. But is it the rght decision?
>many thousands of Libyans will die
And I care, because?
Well, he just caved in.
Why, and how long for, are two completely different questions.
"And I care, because?"
If you need it explaining there is no point.
But I can try.
I can try to remind you all of us are human beings. I can try to remind you that we are all 99.99% the same. The 0.01% difference is what determines our skin tone and our personalities.
Once you stop caring entirely for your fellow humans, the game is over.
Capt. It's not about "not caring", it's about motives and it's about consequences.
The UK has been drawn into two huge wars so far because of oil. Thousands of innocent people have already been killed under the guise of democracy. Afghanistan is now led by an "EU approved" leader. Their elections were a joke, nothing was achieved!
The motives for the EU to be involved are so obviously less than honourable, they're so pious, as to be laughable. Do you really think those in Brussels give a shit for ordinary citizens and democracy?
The consequences of getting involved in "muslim tribal feuds" (for that is essentially what this is about.. has dire consequences for our own families, for our country.
When does it stop? We can't sort out the world and it's problems with war.
It is difficult to know what the consequences will be. Once on this path where does it end?
Did I hear the Cameron, on the BBC news, describe the UN as "The Worlds Governing Body"? I believe i did.
Now it's happening in the Yemen.
"Saleh has been the president of Yemen for over 30 years, and he has vowed to defend his regime "with every drop of blood".
Do we get involved in that too? When does it end?
This is an Arabic problem and if we make it ours, we'll be sorry.
Do you really think these countries are going to end up democracies?
Throwing in my twopenneth whatever is going on in Libya and like Japan it is very difficult to build up a picture and nigh on impossible to build up a clear picture thanks to our totally controlled MSM output, it really is none of our business.
All that is certain is that whatever is really going on isn't what is being reported in the British and American press. With that said Gadaffi does come across as batshit insane but even if he is he is the Libyans problem not ours.
The Coagulation are just making fools of this country with their dead of night theatrics starring the SAS, the calling for a no fly zone whilst conveniently forgetting they have gutted the RAF and sending a ship destined for the scrapheap to 'rescue' British nationals.
If the Arab states want to get involved then that is a matter for them. But I can see no justification for a single British life to be lost sorting out a civil war inside a sovereign nation no matter how horrible it turns out to be.
Mind I can see zero justification for British people losing their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq
Libya is really a horrible side show. The game is all about who gets to sit next to who at the top table in the UN with a second game in play where the European members get to see who sides with who.
Ranty. Stay safe.
Who exactly are these rebels that 'we' are now supporting?
Where is the help from the Arab/Muslim states? Maybe they will increase oil output so the price doesn't go through the roof? <<< hahaha, yeah, right.
So the West will pay for the NFZ, pay for more expensive oil that will effect any recovery, will also pay for anything that goes tits up (sorry Sue).
ln the meantime the Arab/Muslim states sit back and get richer and don't get their hands dirty!
... oh, not forgetting that iDave is now a great heroic leader!
This is a good deal for the West?
What a bloody farce!
"Never forget that we are dealing with a vicious bastard who has no empathy for his citizens."
Oh, come on, Cameron isn't that bad.
I wonder what your decision would have been if you didn't have friends there captain?
I don't blame you for wanting to help them, but as I don't have friends there my perspective was that they weren't worth the life of a single UK soldier. But I think that about Iraq and Afghanistan too.
Still I am glad Ghaddafi has withdrawn for now.
I'm with you on this.
"Once you stop caring entirely for your fellow humans, the game is over".
But, that is not the reason iDave and the rest have come to this 'decision' it's all about Libya's oil. The 'no fly' 'decision' could have been made, as you said, two weeks ago saving many lives. But they just don't care about the peasants, wherever the peasants live.
Having thought again, twice in one day is unusual, people on here are fully expecting foreign police and troops to arrive on the streets of Britain at some point in the future to subjugate the locals into accepting their new rulers IF the humans in control of the EU have their way.
But when it comes to the Libyan situation they then expect some unelected body called the UN to 'authorise' or 'legitimise' the use of foreign military forces to interfere in a sovereign state's internal affairs.
So the question arises IF the EU imports troops and police from other member regions and it all kicks off violently who is going to intervene on our behalf and keep EU warplanes on the ground?
"However, he did, in answer to a question from James Arbuthnot, agree that regime change was likely to be necessary to achieve the aims of the resolution."
David Cameron earlier today.
In answer to Williams second thought,yes the EU WILL put troops on OUR streets if it comes to a revolution and,YES, no one will keep a no fly zone over Btitain,as by that time,our proud RAF will be no more,all tied in to the EU Police force.
Could we parachute Gordon Brown in and get him to wish Gadaffi well and say publicly that he has every confidence in Col Gadaffi. That should ensure Gadaffi's downfall.
I appreciate, and I understand, your reticence.
You see another Iraq/Afghanistan developing.
And I know, and you don't, what it is to have friends involved.
THAT, is what makes this different. Perhaps if you did have friends involved, you would understand my position.
Once you know that there are humans involved, (humans that you KNOW) the game changes.
Had a good think about this Captain, particularly your last comment...only one bit I disagree with - and that's the bit in brackets.
There are absolutely no circumstances where the death of an innocent person may be justified. If anyone is tempted to witter on about 'the greater good' or 'omelettes without breaking eggs' then I would just ask if it was their daughter, mother or wife about to be killed in a shitty way, whether they might like another think.
As someone who has seen a fair bit of blood spilt over the years I tend to take grave fucking exception to armchair warriors who can take the 'broader view', look at the 'global situation' without noticing the sheer wanton waste of life that will ensue if their arrogant ill-informed opinions are given credence.
Sorry about the rant. But if I have to look yet again at pictures of blinded children, amputees, orphans ... I will feel a bit fucking evil myself. And yes, I know Gadaffi and others like him are killing people - BUT IT IS THEM THAT ARE DOING IT. If we join in - however well-intentioned our motives - we are just joining in the killing.
Right - I'd better get me coat...
The United Nations UN are One World Government OWG
Dear Captain Ranty,
The corrupt "powers that be" rely on patriotic flag wavers like yourself to make their corrupt machinations seem honourable.
Gaddafi has outstayed his usefulness to the West. The "West will now turn Libya into the next Somalia with rival factions that can be controlled by the West and make the oil flow without the threat of blackmail by a new Gaddafi.
When will people wake up to the fact that the UK is a "corporation" and that any fighting and interfering is done on behalf of multi-national companies and oil companies. AND is always done for the profit of a few.
XX When will people wake up to the fact that the UK is a "corporation" and that any fighting and interfering is done on behalf of multi-national companies and oil companies. AND is always done for the profit of a few. XX
And, of course, YOU have nEVER used, or made use of, an oil reliant product in your entire life, have you?
No car, your bread gets delivered to the shop by wind power. Your compter uses NO electricity from oil fired power stations, the plastics from which it is made are special to you, because they were not made using oil. Hel the thing even came from China on a sailing ship, didn't it?
I know this if off topic, but has everyone seen http://www.annaraccoon.com/ this morning.
Please read this.
Dear Furor Teutonicus.
First let's get one thing staight I believe in the "individual". I don't go along with Nationalism or any other sort of "ism". I want to be a "free man". Unfortunately the game was well underway before I was born (which was a fairly long time ago). The rules and "bully" boys were already in place.
I will use the system to my and my loved ones advantage any way I can.
There are no "morals" when dealing with the system. The system doesn't care about you and me.
The "system" has sent many of my past relative off to war to be slaughtered in the name of fighting evil when all along it was the "system" that was evil.
The system has stolen money from me all my life at the point of a gun (taxes). It is forever thinking up more rules and restrictions for the average man. It's objective is to turn you and me into serfs without any say in the matter. So I shall get back whatever I can.
I shall make sure I quietly and ruthlessly make use of the system.
If you don't like it ............... tough!
Partition. Not this week's word, but one you'll be hearing a lot of in those coming.
Whilst there's some gas in the west of Libya, it's the oil in the east that 'we' want. 'We' also don't want the hassle of trying to manage the whole of Libya; watch for a two state -- de facto or real -- solution to emerge.
The Libyan spokesmen keep stressing their desire to maintain the 'integrity' of Libya as a country (listen out for it) -- they are all too well aware of what 'we' are up to.
Dear UK Fred
Everyone should make it a point to look at the site you have pointed out.
This is what I mean about the "corrupt" system we live in.
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