August 30, 2011

A Cause We Must All Support

Smoking in pubs.

I know what you are thinking: "I'm a non-smoker, this has nothing to do with me. In fact, I prefer it now that pubs don't smell".

A reasonable statement, I have heard it a thousand times. Very reasonable. Until, that is, you begin to dig deeper and think harder.

When they banned smoking in pubs & clubs in March 2006 (in Scotland) and July 2007 (In England, Wales & NornIron) something incredible happened; they divided us absolutely. Prior to these dates, friends were simply that, friends. Very shortly after the bans were enacted, we drifted apart. People we had happily co-existed with in the same shared space were badly, terribly affected by the ban. Both smokers and non-smokers.

I spent those years (2006-2010) learning everything I could about tobacco. And I do mean everything. I studied it from seed to smoke. I know what's in it tobacco, I know what "harm" it does, I know which diseases it offers protection from, I know the benefits and the disadvantages of smoking tobacco. I know it's history, who used it and when. (The answer to that one surprises most: shreds of tobacco were found in pyramids dating back more than 8,000 years). I have read 78 of the original studies on proclaimed harm from second hand smoke. I have read a hundred other meta-studies that those originals spawned. I have studied the financial aspects and who earns more from tobacco/nicotine (it's touch and go whether it is the pharmaceutical or the tobacco companies, if you must know), such a great business either smoking or stopping smoking is. The industry employs 105 million people around the world. Tobacco taxes generate trillions for greedy governments the world over. They are, honestly speaking, completely and utterly addicted to tobacco money. Caring for people who contract "smoking related diseases" (this is mostly mythical; I can pretty much prove that whatever malady was contracted can easily be contracted from a dozen different things) costs them but a fraction of what we pump into the coffers.

If anyone ever says to you "Smokers are a drain on the NHS", tell them to piss off. Smokers in the UK alone generate enough money to design, build, equip, staff and maintain EIGHT new hospitals a year. The tobacco take is £12 billion a year and (although this is a big, fat lie), smoking related illness supposedly costs £2.5 billion. As the (turncoat) MP Stephen Pound said during the (very brief) debate on smoking bans "That's not a bad deal for the country". Not a single MP denied it.  Check Hansard. It's in there.

Incidentally, did you know that we debated the Iraq war for 40 hours, the smoking ban for a measly 4 hours, and the fox hunting ban? Over 400 hours of parliamentary time. The war affected the entire nation, the smoker ban affected 15 million people and their friends, and the hunting ban? Around 100,000 people.

None of this is the point of this piece.

This, however, is:

Almost all of you come here to learn about freedom. Whether it is my personal journey you are following, or just to read up on ways you can be awkward, the basic premise is freedom; the getting and keeping of it, or to share your disgust when you learn that freedoms are being curtailed. It is for those reasons that I thought you would all, by the time you have finished reading this, rush off immediately to sign this petition.

"Why should I?", I imagine would be your first reaction.

About that I will say this:

  • When the bans came in they said it would be good for pubs. So far, we have lost 8,468 pubs.
  • They said it would be good for clubs, restaurants and bingo halls. So far we have lost over 2,000 of them
  • They said non-smokers would flock to the new, clean, fresh-smelling pubs. They did not. Hence the wholesale slaughter of some fantastic venues.
  • This one childish Act has put more than 200,000 people out of work.
  • They didn't just ban smokers. They effectively banned tolerant non-smokers as well.
  • They took away your right, Mr & Mrs Non Smoker, to decide for yourselves.
  • They ruined your friendships, interrrupted some brilliant conversations.
  • They sent YOUR older relatives outside to smoke in atrocious weather conditions.
  • Not one single life has been "saved" by this smoking ban. Not one.
  • Yet several people have died as a direct result of it. The first death was a 74 year old man in Scotland.
  • This legislation is nasty. It cost billions to implement and hurts us all.
  • Reinstating the owners right to decide will revitalise the pub industry.
  • It will allow us all to meet again in safety, warmth and comfort.
  • It will allow us all to talk, uninterrupted, once more.

I really could go on. The odours! We will be rid of them (piss, vomit, BO) once more as landlords and landladies can afford once again to switch on their air management systems. Of course, that was always the easier answer, better air management. I have seen systems that allow me to smoke in a bar separated from the barkeep and my non-smoking friends by an air curtain. The only way they know I am smoking is because they can see me.

Several suggestions are put forth by campaigners, such as:

  1. Separation-No. That is a Frankfurt Technique and I will not endure apartheid here.
  2. Segregation-No. That is even worse.
  3. Licenses for pubs that allow smoking inside.-Absolutely not. Too much regulation as it is.
  4. Allow only a set number of pubs to allow smoking. 20% is a popular number. -Nope. All landlords get to choose. 

One thing I think we can all agree on: there is scope for improvement. A great deal of scope.  In order to get those inepts talking about it again-with a fresh and honest look at the legislation-we need to nudge them. We can do that by signing the petition I am going to link to.

Points to note:

Do NOT sign the petition if you are content to be told what to do by nanny.

Do NOT sign the petition if you believe the legislation is working just fine thank you very much.

Do NOT sign the petition if your biggest gripe is having to wash your clothes after a night out.

Do NOT sign the petition if you firmly believe that you have a right to "clean" air. You don't.

Do NOT sign the petition if seeing smokers huddled outside in wind, rain and snow gives you a little buzz.

Do NOT sign the petition if you cannot decide for yourself what is safe and what isn't.

Beyond that little list, you have no reason NOT to sign the petition.

If you have a strong desire to get your MPs/MSPs/Assembly Members doing something worthwhile, creating wealth, jobs, and a safe venue for you and I to meet up and talk, then please go here and add your support for this debate.

If you want to debate the science, bring it on. I have two million facts to share with you.

If you want to debate the finances, I have 12 billion facts to share with you.

If you want to debate the freedom to choose, I have only one fact: every time they "create" a freedom for one, they take it away from another.

Always remember: one right removed diminishes us all. If we never stand together on anything, they will divide us, and divide us, and divide us. We are easier to control in small groups. I will not be controlled by these imbeciles any more. Will you?

When they "created" this freedom for you to breathe clean air (no such thing, do ask me why) they killed many people both directly and indirectly. I have examples of this. When they told smokers to get outside they opened the door for rapists to strike vulnerable women. Many have been raped as a direct result of this ban. I have examples. When they sent us outside to smoke in Scotland, the use of Rohypnol rose by a massive 140%. I have the evidence.

Was even one life (one that was never in danger; I have those facts too) saved by this nonsensical ban? No. Not a single one. Was the health of bar workers improved? Several studies in Scotland show that no, they were not.

Are you aware that 58% of quitters die of lung cancer/lung disease within 30-50 months of quitting? I have that study.

Are you aware that smoking provides protection against Alzheimers Disease? I have that study.

Are you aware that smoking prevents several cancers? I have those studies too.

Smoking is said to kill 100,000 thousand people a year in the UK. It doesn't, but they need you to believe that. The NHS alone kills between 60,000 and 80,000 people a year due directly to negligence and diseases contracted whilst in hospital. How many of those deaths, do you think, are labelled as "smoking related"?

Your government lies to you. It does this day in and day out. Why did you imagine they would tell you the truth about smoking?

I will.

Just ask.



Chez said...

OK, I'm asking.

I'm a non-smoker, and oppose the smoking ban on principle. You make some big claims in this post (not the one about the Government lying, obviously), claims I've not seen elsewhere.

Specifically I'm interested in the health related ones. The behaviour-modification ones are reasonable on their face, but I would be interested to learn more about the others.

Captain Ranty said...


Thanks for asking.

It is a huge subject and it is mired with lies and misinformation. I promise you that I have not made a single claim here that I cannot back up.

Because it is so complex, I have decided to run a post on it. Complete with links.

Can you bear with me while I put it all together?


Chez said...

Certainly. It's definitely a subject more worthy of a post, than the comment thread.

I look forward to it.

Woodsy42 said...

I have already signed the e-thingy - for all the good it will do. However I would be interested to know how you see the reality of the 'harm' it does and look forward to your post. I have long since stopped believing in any health advice promoted by the authorities.

Sue said...

It has actually caused alot of misery for the elderly. They used to meet in pubs, working men's clubs and bingo halls. Now many of them are excluded. For some of them, it was the only time they got out of the house and met people.

Captain Ranty said...

Chez, Woodsy,

It is coming. You will (should) be amazed at some of the lies they have told.


Captain Ranty said...


I have links to stories that appeared in the MSM of old people in Canada freezing to death because they were made to go outside to smoke.


Anonymous said...

This smoking ban thing is a very important subject matter and I look forward to reading your post soon regarding all the lies and misconceptions that have been passed as truth when it's been really a lot of propaganda serving the financial and control interests of a few multinational corporations, quangoes and government officials, whose gain based on some total nonsensical lies and health claims, especially those regarding the fictious second-hand-smoke "harm", have done more to strip liberties and private property rights than many of the subsequent draconian bans and nanny state laws that have come since. And to boot, it's all being done in the broad daylight with hardly anyone aware of the deceptions taking place. I look forward to that article of yours indeed soon. Great subject matter to point out to anyone not yet aware of what has been going on and the true effect of the ongoing propaganda campaign of hatred against smokers/smoking/tobacco/property-rights/liberties - and with no lives saved what-so-ever for all the destruction that has been done.

BrianB said...

Nicely written piece, C. Confident and passionate - just like old times, eh?

Your absence of writings leaves a big hole in 'the other place'. ;)

More, please!

Andrew said...

"Beyond that little list, you have no reason NOT to sign the petition."

I have a few reasons:

It doesn't go far enough.

I loathe the weak, weasel language it's written in.

It'd mean the pub/club owner would have to pay for a special room with no guarantee on turning a profit on it.

But I could guarantee that if a miracle happened and pubs/clubs were allowed a smoking room the restrictions the political filth would place on it would make it a waste of time.

And I do believe our beloved deputy leader has already sneeringly commented on the smoking ban - he lumped it in with the death penalty.

It would be more effective, not to pathetically plead to the shit in Westminster, but to simply ignore the ban.

If every landlord/club owner in the country ignores it, it's going to be rather difficult for the scum to do anything about it.

And if they do... I think the time for peaceful protest and "democracy" will be gone...

banned said...

What assurances do you offer that, if I were to sign that petition, I would not be added to the list of persons to be taken away and horribly killed by The State for disagreeing with them?

Dick Puddlecote said...

Top post CR. And, Chez, I know CR's piece will be a right eye-opener for you. Heknows what he is talking about.

One thing you forgot though, CR. The ban was a gate-opener for the state to dictate its terms to those who own property. Private property rights used to be sacrosanct in this country, now all that's required is to make up some kind of pretend risk and government owns you.


smokervoter said...

Hear Hear, CR. You certainly don't mince words. May you all succeed in canceling this wicked social engineering experiment once and for all. And then may it spread elsewhere.

Anonymous said...


Smoking cigarettes is bad for you simpy because of all the chemicals within. Smoking natural tobacco isn't. There is no proof whatsoever that it causes cancer (natural) it's just a scare story. And if it does then why didn't my grandad, who smoked filterless smokes all his life never get it?

While I was speaking one day with my brother about prohibition in the USA, he told me that it was because they (tptb) needed the distillers for some purpose. I can't remember which. I simply told him that prohibition in the USA was simply a test of the public from the powers that be. That is people like to drink and if they can ban people from drinking then it will show the control they have over people. Thus, prohibition was merely an experiment on determining the behaviour of the populous.

Therefore the smoking ban is merely another situation of tptb controlling people. It also broke up people meeting in a pub TO DISCUSS WAYS OF SMASHING THE ELITES!

Moreso, the amount of arguments I would get into with people who supported the ban and yet got into their cars. I would say to them that they think it's not ok for me to smoke in a pub, but ok for them to drive around in their car pumping out deadly carbon monoxide fumes? They still tried to defend their standpoint to which I laughed at every possible excuse. I simply said "ok, we'll have a test shall we? You get into your car with 4 of your mates and I will too. What we'll all do is light up and smoke, while you put a pipe from your exhaust back into your car. Guaranteed, we'll be ok, reminiscent of Cheech & Chong's Up in Smoke driving down the road, while you'll very much be dead."

The problem with society is that they believe what they are told from the very bastards who are killing them, whether it be through poisoning their food and water, giving them deadly vaccinations that cause diseases, sending them off to attack foreign lands and wanting to bring the population down to under 500m.

What's worse though are some smokers I know who agree with the smoking ban - "well, my clothes don't smell of smoke...blah...blah...blah..."

It's control Cap'n. Nothing more and it shows how well trained they have the people.


Anonymous said...

Banned said:

"What assurances do you offer that, if I were to sign that petition, I would not be added to the list of persons to be taken away and horribly killed by The State for disagreeing with them?"

People will laugh at what you've written Banned, but this is a very possible situation to come. We already have FTAC, where you can be thrown away in a mental institution at the drop of a hat, should the government believe you're a danger (to them) without the proper procedures one follows when having another sectioned.

I suggest people read some Alexander Solzhenitsyn in order to see where the future is headed, not that we're already there....


Andrew said...

"People will laugh at what you've written Banned, but this is a very possible situation to come."

I'm with you on the potential seriousness of this.

It might not be a very smart thing to do to fill out a petition that says "I'm a dissenter and potential troublemaker".

This government might not use it. But their EU masters would love that kind of information...

Anonymous said...

I've had similar arguments with witless hand wavers climbing into a huge vehicle.
I always suggest that they sit in their garage with the engine running for an hour whilst I chain smoke for an hour in mine and we'll see who walks out.

Anonymous said...

It will allow us all to talk, uninterrupted, once more.

This is the nub, they don't want us to talk, do they?

Anonymous said...

Anyone know if the ban has been adhered to in Greece and France? I know in Spain the people have rolled over and accepted the ban. Do they still allow those weird arabic smoking vessels in certain establishments? Did the H of C bar eventually ban smoking?

motoringmitch said...

Ahh, it's ok for government to ban cigs, yet the very same government sprays all its inhabitants with known poisonous chemicals. They have been poisoning mankind for years. Flouride in water ? WTF flouride crystalises the pineal gland.copy and paste the link below, clear evidence.

Kin_Free said...

Tobacco has been around far longer than 8000 years Cap'n - a fossilised block of tobacco was found in Peru last year dated to around 2.5 million years ago indicating that tobacco had been identified for its beneficial properties way back then. This was the very beginning of human existence, even before the emergence of homo sapiens. South America is where one of the earliest advanced civilisations developed. Could Frank's hypothesis be relevant?

2.5 billion 'smoke related' illness costs? When I first saw these figures on smoke related illness the figure was 1.9 billion (around 2007) and more recently I have seen 3.5 billion quoted. Why are these cost escalating at such a rate when smoking has declined so much over the last 50+ years?

Some basic, 'unadjusted' stats may explain;

UK smoking prevalence;
1950 = 80% (male)
2010 = 25%

Newly diagnosed cancers England (all);
1971 - 143,763
2006 - 243,144

"The majority of lung cancer diagnoses in the United States now are either in people who never smoked or in people who have quit," (Dr. Bruce Johnson of the Dana Farber Cancer Institute Boston) - Nov 2010

Lung and Bronchus cancers in USA (ACS) - New Cases;
2000: - 164,100
2008: - 215,020 (31% increase - in 8 years!)
(US population increased by 8% over same period)

Surely we should be seeing a reduction because of quitters lives 'saved' - not an increase?

Pesky Anonymous said...

I seriously wonder if smoking renders the brain impervious to bullshit. Why else would they be so against it?
My doctor once said to me, as we discussed smoking: "It does have a calming effect on the nerves".
Well they don't want too many calm rational people 'tis true. They would prefer a nation of nervous trembling mesmerised disorientated disorganised helpless obedient drones.

Furor Teutonicus said...

Can not sign, as it is for Brits only. But support you fully.

Something that is not taken into account is/are the "side effects".

I lived for a couple of years, on a small scheme in central Scotland.

The local club closed due to the smoking ban.

All of a sudden, the part of the scheme where the club was sited became like something trying to look like Kabul or Belfast in the 70s.

The rime rate shot through the roof.

Why? Because every one knew everyone else, and knew to whom the little bastards that polute the area belong to.

Therefore, on the way to and from the club there were always "Dads/mums mates" who would not hesitate to give the little bastards a good kick up the arse, and inform the suspected parents into the bargain.

No smoking lead to no club, and no one "on the streets" to keep a little "locals discipline".

I have heard similar from many other schemes/council estates, where the "local" has had to shut down.

Law of unintended consequences, and deffinately NOT taken into account in "Government" figures.

Eclipse said...

I was a regular DJ in pubs before the smoking ban, now I'm lucky if I get 2 gigs a month.

You could see it happen. the nights were busy, pubs packed out to the rafters every night, then the night the ban kicked it, everyone said, 'it'll be ok, it won't affect us that much', the week after. it didn't effect them much.

then the week after that the numbers were down, then down again the week after that and so on....

My fear now is that to bring smoking back into pubs, while an important step in bringing freedoms back, won't save the trade.

Prices have gone up and up and up to counter the loss of smokers, the rise in ingredient prices and tax increases.

I can't see anything saving our beloved pub trade.

Anonymous said...

What amazes me about it is how willingly people went along with it. Same as those folks you see bending over to pick up dog shift when their poodle has fouled a verge. You'd have hoped at least some people would have enough spine to say "fuck this demeaning shit, I'm not going outside like some leper". But no.

So in that sense, they get everything they asked for.

banned said...

@Harbinger; yes indeed, I wrote that tongue-not-in-cheek. Alexander Solzhenitsyn woke me, as a child really, to what goes on; him and Primo Levi from what was supposed to be the other side of the fence.
There is no reason at that the oh-so-liberal UK can avoid the same fate.

nominedeus said...

Whilst I would have signed this petition like a shot a few weeks ago Cap'nI am afraid this action is no longer possible for me...or you if you think about it!
It may be perfectly alright to raise 'cain' about such issues and to bring such things to the attention of the masses but people like you and I are no longer eligable in a similar way to Furor Tech...we do not live in that corporation any longer...
I took a long while thinking and decideing on Lawful Rebellion and one of the major ramifications of entering said state is that we are no longer eligable to ,vote,petition etc etc unless it is on our own behalf and/or that of fellow LR's, our stand has been made and it is that stand wherein lies the fight,, Banned is quite right about lists and government and you and I my friend are right at the top of a very short list of dissenters....I may still be a smoker but I am no longer a corporate government shill with the right to complain to 'mummy'....

Captain Ranty said...


That is a valid point.

But how can I ask people to sign a petition I am not prepared to sign myself?

To my mind, stirring up trouble with things like this petition feel as if they belong in my remit.

To say nothing, to do nothing, merely gives the fuckwits a free pass.

I cannot stand for that.


nominedeus said...

Cap'n we are both quite prepared to sign it...I suppose it is a bit of distrain and distress in action then eh!
lol!...I'm all for that my friend!

Wv= that internet shorthand for add yer signature?

Furor Teutonicus said...

XX Anonymous said...

What amazes me about it is how willingly people went along with it. Same as those folks you see bending over to pick up dog shift when their poodle has fouled a verge. You'd have hoped at least some people would have enough spine to say "fuck this demeaning shit, I'm not going outside like some leper". But no.

31 August 2011 13:02 XX

Big difference. They do not close the pavement and refuse it a licence at the next sessions if your dog shits on it.

Peopl DID say "fuck this demeaning shit, I'm not going outside like some leper". That's why all the pubs are closing.

CallMePete said...

First they banned smoking in pubs, then in work vehicles and now they are talking of banning smoking in all cars with children in them. I am absolutely pig sick of these interfering bastards.

I am with Indy on this one though, I will not sign any petition, petitioning equals begging.