August 10, 2010

Accepted For Value

We have touched on Accepted For Value (A4V) before, but I don't think I provided a video.

Have a listen to one of the movements' founders, Winston Shrout, as he tells us how it is done.

I have tried this myself, but without success. My mistake was to send the signed remittance (giroslip) to the wrong person. It needs to be sent to the Chief Accountant. Find out who that is and send your A4V to him/her marked "private & confidential". A giroslip, or remittance slip looks almost exactly like a cheque. What is the only thing that brings a cheque to life? Your signature. Remittance slips are no different. Read the Bills of Exchange Act. Learn about species of money. Learn about promissory notes. Know what they know.

Incidentally, HMRC sent me one of these and I accepted it for value and sent it in to them. I have since learnt that if they do not dispute the payment offered within three days, the "debt" is settled. It was more than three weeks before they wrote back and said that the A4V I sent was not acceptable. What they never do is send these giroslips back to you. Why is that? Mainly because they have already been processed, and they have already been paid.

Next week I will be contacting HMRC again to wrap up all the shenanigans. Among other things I will inform them that I settled this alleged debt many months ago. If they deny it, I will ask for my giroslip back. I'll let you know what they say.

You may well wonder why, or how, this system works. The simple fact is that the UK has been bankrupt since 1869. They had to come up with a method for people to settle their debts, after all, in bankruptcy all debts are forgiven. Including yours. What they "forgot" to tell you was how to use the alternative payment methods. Actually, they didn't forget at all. They enacted the Bankruptcy Act in 1869 and the answers lie within. Remember: every statute has the remedy. You just have to find it.

One final point: I only use this method with government agencies. Any liabilities I create on the private side I settle on time, every time. I remain in honour at all times. Accepting for value is both honourable and lawful.

As always, I ask you: what harm can it do to try? They can reject it and you have lost nothing. Many people have sent these in and never heard back from the accounts department of the companies they sent them to.

You have nothing to lose.



jonah said...

Accepted for value!!!

Finding it hard to get me head around it. This is what I have grasped so far -

I receive a bill/demand in the form of a bank giro credit slip. This is in fact a cheque.
As Winston says, because of the national bankruptcy companies have to supply
A remedy. So they send me a cheque and out of ignorance I only see a demand for
Payment and not the remedy. Right! so now I am no longer ignorant (or only partially so)
I see that the company has provided me with a remedy. (As Freeman Michael say’s, the remedy is hidden in plain sight)

Ah! I say, If it is right what Winston says , in that I the company has sent me a cheque I will double check to see if it is correct. A cheque is a bill of exchange. A 3 party contract, in writing, where the Drawer (the maker) instructs the Drawee (bank) to pay money to a third party, called the payee.
The Cheque has to be signed to be valid.

Now on the bank giro credit slip ( the Presentment) I see my name, the companies name and a banks name (Alliance and Leicester) I see some account numbers. A customer ref and some account bank
account numbers. So far so good. The other requirements to qualify as a cheque is a signature and
The amount payable expressed in writing. First off, I don’t see a signature. But wait a minute, I see a company name and logo In the name of Alliance and Leicester and this, off course, qualifies as a signature. So now for the amount payable expressed in writing, But unfortunately I can’t see this on the presentment. Even allowing for the fact that it is an allonged presentment I still do not see this expression anywhere on it. Therefore the presentment falls short of being a cheque.

Just wondered what anyone else’s take on it, is.

jonah said...

BOE act:

20 Inchoate instruments
(1)Where a simple signature on a blank . . . F1 paper is delivered by the signer in order that it may be converted into a bill, it operates as a prima facie authority to fill it up as a complete bill for any amount . . . F1, using the signature for that of the drawer, or the acceptor, or an indorser; and, in like manner, when a bill is wanting in any material particular, the person in possession of it has a prima facie authority to fill up the omission in any way he thinks fit.


So basically on receiving the in-complete cheque/Boe we operate as the Drawee/Banker and complete any missing expressions we see fit and then do a bankers acceptance. Then we use our signature to give it life.

Captain Ranty said...


Sorry I wasn't around to answer your question.

Thankfully you went ahead and answered it correctly yourself!

The very last sentence captures it perfectly.


jonah said...

Yeah! It's right what you said, in that the remedy is hidden in the acts themselves. I'll keep looking and studying.

Thanks Capt

jonah said...

After further study/thoughts I have a few problems/queries regarding negotiable instruments, the BOE act
and the whole A4V idea itself. In that that writing “Accepted” on the presentment May be a flawed process. I would appreciate any input, ideas or advice

The scenario is that we receive something that has all the appearance of a bill of exchange
and we want to treat it as such in order to pay/discharge a debt. We have seen that it is incomplete, or Inchoate, and we complete the missing expressions

Now, as the bill has been sent to us for negotiation we become the holder in due course. As the holder in due course we have the option of becoming the drawee or an indorser, or both. But only by writing “accepted” and signing it do we take the position of completing the payment of the bill. The drawee/accepter must have the capacity to monetarise the bill (using the instructions on the instrument to turn it into money by having access to an account of the drawer of the bill)

As we cannot fulfil the role of the drawee we cannot “Accept” the bill. But we can still indorse the bill.
With our signature. In the role of undorser when we sign we accept liability unless we qualify our signature as in:

The way I see it is that by accepting the bill we are agreeing to our duties in the contract by our indorsment, but by making a qualified indorsment we agreeing that It is a genuine instrument and that the parties have made a warranty to fulfil the contract and discharge the instrument.

We sign it “without recourse” after completing the missing expressions on the cheque Such as: “pay: whoever ltd one pound and twenty pence only” As the drawer/maker of the instrument has kindly listed the account number from which the money is to be drawn from, our job then is complete,

We then send it back to the person who sent it to us. They then become the holder in due course. They can then present the instrument to the bank for acceptance. All we have to do is be able to prove our role as endorser and that we negotiated the bill by delivering it to the company. The bill has to presented for acceptance before any protest of dishonour

BOE act
(3)The fact that the holder has reason to believe that the bill, on presentment, will be dishonoured does not excuse presentment.