Over 5 million public sector workers are muttering about strike action.
Go ahead, you greedy, grasping, selfish people.
This action is not about a "living wage", is it? No. It's about having the taxpayer guarantee your pension. Well guess what? This taxpayer is fed up to the back teeth of parting company with ever-increasing amounts of his hard-earned coin to ensure that YOU have a great retirement. I won't be living high on the hog either. But here's the thing: I already know that. I already know that I will struggle mightily, just like millions of pensioners already do. Do you hear them whining? Me neither. Nowhere near as much as they should be whining. They worked harder than you do, they did not trot around with a sense of entitlement. They did not take absolutely every second off sick that they could get away with in each and every year of their employment. In fact, in the last 15 years we find that public sector workers take off more time due to "illness" than any other sector. Four times as much, you idle gits.
There are 5 million of you. 5,000,000. FIVE MILLION.
WTF do you all do? In amongst your number are unwanted administrators, unrelenting jobsworths, unnecessary Outreach Coordinators For The Emancipation Of One-Legged Blind Slovakian Lesbians With Learning Disabilities With A Penchant For Stamp-Collecting, and the like. I am tired of working like a dog to support you. I'm not even going to get into those lazy bastards that can, but absolutely will not work. Chip in, or piss off. It's that simple. 2.5 million of you right there. This gets worse! I am supporting 7.5 million of you now. FFS!
We know where we are with the idle and the indolent.
But you, you with your hands out, you are something else.
Newsflash: I don't want you to earn anything, far less give you a pay-rise, a golden handshake or a gold-plated pension. You don't deserve any of those things. Wake up and smell the reality: you are not owed a damn thing. You are responsible for yourself. I should not be forced to carry you.
YOU are a drain on the economy. YOU produce nothing. YOU do not add to my life but YOU do subtract from it. Because of YOU I am penalised. I have to part company with over 80% of my salary every year. If it isn't wasted on you, paying your wages while you sit on your arse at home claiming to be "stressed", it is wasted on the prosecution of illegal wars, or is spent on the Commons wine cellar, or iPads for binmen, and a
I have some sympathy. You grew up being taught that if you wanted anything, all you had to do was put out your hand. So that you weren't offended, someone would thrust my cash in your grasping little hand. You are entitled, are you not? I blame the last government for this feckless, irresponsible notion, and I blame the current government for not getting this notion out of your heads. I blame your parents for allowing you to nurture the idea that the world owes you a living. It does not. I blame you for never growing up and realising that to get ahead, you have to sacrifice some things. The very first thing you have to get rid of is that imaginary bubble that you think will keep you safe and snug and warm. The world is a harsh place, it is time you got to grips with that.
Your government is the criminal in all of this. They are the ones who tax everything that moves, and just to be sure, they tax everything that doesn't. They think OUR money is theirs, and what's worse, so do YOU.
And in amongst you are true heroes: hard-working nurses and doctors, dedicated and caring teachers, brave Fire & Rescue workers, courageous Forces personnel and yes, even good coppers. I do not begrudge those people anything. (I'd prefer to pay a local tax to fund the people that stand by ready to help me rather than fling a big chunk into a central pot, which is badly managed, but other than that, I agree they are necessary).
It's the pen-pushers, the pecksniffs, the bureaucrats, the tobacco wardens, the traffic wardens, plastic cops, all of you with made-up job titles, and several million other wasters that stick in my craw. I need none of you.
None.
Got that?
When you dick-heads go on strike no-one will notice. Least of all me.
Hopefully, your pathetic government will realise that it could shave down the public sector "work" force and the taxpayers will be far better off.
But hey, while you are on strike, you don't get paid, m'kay? I will expect a full rebate for the "services" you withdrew. You don't provide, so you get no pay. I get no services, so I will not pay for them. How do you like them apples?
Go ahead. Strike.
You are entitled, after all.
CR.
138 comments:
"It's the pen-pushers, the pecksniffs, the bureaucrats, the tobacco wardens, the traffic wardens, plastic cops, all of you with made-up job titles, and several million other wasters that stick in my craw. I need none of you."
Yes, if I were one of them, I would be thanking my lucky stars that I had such a cushy job. I wouldn't be trying to draw attention to myself.
Michael,
That was the main thrust of the rant. If I were brighter, I would have actually mentioned that fact.
Thanks for pointing it out.
They are lucky bastards but all they do is whinge.
CR.
Fuck me, Ranty, that was a long one!
Problem is I cannot actually disagree with a single word of it. Even my wife is appalled at these useless bastards - and she's got a Civil Service pension! As she says tho' it wasn't like this when she was there...
Fucking Blair and Brown have a hell of a lot to answer for! Staggeringly, it seems even the Milipede thinks they're wrong...
I was doing a government job just before I retired. I aked one of them on the bus one night "What do you do?" "I'm a civil servant" he replied. "I know" said I, "but what do you do?" "I've been a civil servant for thirty years " he said.
Next morning I asked my guvnor - another contractor - what the bloke actually did. "Nothing" he replied. "They're letting him sit there for two years until he retires because it's cheaper than making him redundant."
Still, at least he'll get a nice pension, eh? Un-fucking-believable!! If we sacked 50% of them I honestly believe you wouldn't notice the difference.
D.
My bad, sorry.
It was a Pringle moment, once I got started...
It IS a valid question, isn't it? Do we really need 5 million people to support 650 arseholes in Westminster?
Or am I going doolally?
CR.
Oh noes, the tobacco enforcement officers going on strike, there'll be no option but for people to go to the pub and fucking enjoy themselves for a change.
AE,
Chaos is a given. (In their fevered minds...)
We will probably get more achieved without them.
CR.
Question:
How many on the public payroll are properly of the Good Kind, i.e. how many Police, Paramedics, Nurses, Doctors, Fire and Rescue, Armed Forces, etc.?
I'm just wondering, not because I think it will be a high proportion of the total, but I think it would be nice to put a number on those that need to justify their existence. (Obviously, there are many whose existence can be justified, but I doubt it's X million...)
the firefighters may be going on strike as well. Fuck'm, they only work for 170 days a year. Salary £33,000 pa.
Let's hope they can get all five million out at the same time.
That would be a real eye opener for most of the plebiscite.
I'm wondering if there is a clause in our ahem, contract with locak/national/eu government which allows us to sue the bastards if we suffer a lack of service?
Anon,
I like Holby so I will take that as a compliment.
Ta.
CR.
Chez,
This is tough for me to admit but like you, I think most of us are just trying to get on.
The number of spongers WILL be low, but I am a recent convert to anarchism so they are all, by default, a waste of my money.
CR.
Love it......straight to the point as always!
FT,
I used to have a lot more respect for those lads 'n lassies.
Until I discovered that they have a little Health & Safety "huddle" before deciding that they can actually go in and rescue the burning people.
Still, if I was in the shit I'd want them to turn up.
Not the coppers. At least, not the one who turned up to watch a young boy drown because it was "too risky" for him to get his lardy arse in the river and get the kid out.
I'd have been happier reading the headline "Hero Cop Loses Life In Attempt To Save Child".
CR.
Bill,
You can probably win a pile of dosh if you are "offended".
Not difficult these days....
CR.
Wayne,
My first version was harsh. I toned it down.
CR.
This is shaping up for a real donnybrook.
Have you noticed that when roundabout traffic lights stop working, the traffic flows more smoothly?
Can't wait for the useless buggers to go on strike, quite frankly ;-)
I agree most of them wouldn't be employed in the private sector because they are completely useless.
On the flip side of that as the Capt'n mentions, there are some (and on the scale of things a drop in the ocean) that do deserve a decent pension for putting up with abuse, assault, unsociable hours, being tied down by "youmun rites" instead of common sense. I could go on and on with the shit I have put up with for the last 12 years. Not to mention that you're hell bent on keeping your job if you call a convicted criminal "inmate" let alone "con". Agreed some of my colleagues are wankers but unfortunately wankers appear in the private sector too.
But for all those who begrudge my pension in 29 years, next time I'm trying to resuscitate a dead body with rigamortis, (I'm not a doctor I can't say a person is dead and have to act to preserve life until either paramedics take over or a doctor pronounces them dead) I'll think on that I don't deserve my pension because people who CAN'T do my job don't like the fact that I get a half decent pension at the end of it all. (the funny thing is it's not that good) That's if I get to retirement age having seen some of the vicious attacks on colleagues.
F***W*T TW****R
"the firefighters may be going on strike as well. Fuck'm, they only work for 170 days a year. Salary £33,000 pa".
Bet you wouldn't be saying that if they pulled your arse out of a burning building! One of my good friends is a fire fighter and he sees things on a daily basis that would break people like you instantly. When was the last time you picked up the burnt remains of a dead baby and carried it out of a burning house? Of course they are going to be concerned for their own safety to a certain degree but wouldn't you want your son/daughter/dad/mum to be as safe as possible at work?
By all means go after the stasi police force, precious teachers and all the other useless fuckers who work for the dictatorship we have at the moment but FFS leave the unsung heroes of our country alone! (Armed services, Fire Fighters, Nurses, Ambulance, Prison Officers. Without them we'd all be fucked)
There should be changes but the main point of this is what have the thieving bastards in westminster done with their pensions? Fuck all! oh and on top of this they are stealing our taxes in expenses claims, (just in case you had all forgotten) I read recently to enjoy a politicians pension you would have to invest over £50k per year and they want to give me less than £11k per year after I retire (to which I contribute 2/3 of that and can't get all that I have put in back if I resign/sacked/medic'd out before retirement). That might be the main reason for the threats to strike. (albeit pointless and will just piss the public off, nothing more) TPTB are playing us all like a violin and will soon smiling as they cut the strings. Talk about divide and conquer.
Joey P
Caratacus, an apt analogy. I remember when they put the lights on all the roads into Hyde Park Corner. Whereas prior to that, the traffic flowed smoothly, with only minor back-ups, after they were installed Park lane regularly backed right up to Marble Arch, Knightsbridge was a nightmare, and the whole thing became a morass.
But of course, the jobsworths loved it. It's control, innit? Now things were nicely regulated. Red. Orange. Green. Slow. Stop. Go. That's right children, just do what you're told and you won't get into trouble.
Much better than that nasty old anarchy that used to prevail. Even if it did work better when people were left to make their own decisions.
But then, if people were allowed to make their own decisions, then all those vital posts in the civil service, like tobacco control and most of the rest of the Health Department, (to mention a small example) would have nothing to do! And that would be terrible! Wouldn't it? And just think of all those poor quangos we wouldn't need...Oh, pity...
Funny how these Unions never 'take action' on behalf of a member, but should pensions be under threat it's "Out! Brothers out!"
I write from personal experience.
Screw the lot of 'em.
Joey P said... "FFS leave the unsung heroes of our country alone! (Armed services, Fire Fighters, Nurses, Ambulance, Prison Officers"
And this is part of the problem. Unsung? Are you serious? I'm sick of hearing about the heroic deeds of those who are essentially doing nothing more than a job of work (obviously none of this applies to the armed services).
I'm fed up being told by the Government, by the unions and by the workers themselves that they are soooo special and deserving. Fair enough, I DO appreciate the roles they play in society generally but lets not pretend they are all risking life and limb every time they go to work (which of course is what they'd like you believe). Nursing isn't a particularly hazardous job... and judging from the numbers of patients that die each year I'd say they were the unsung heroes paying with their lives not the nurses. Similarly with the police. How many of them die each year compared to the numbers of citizens they actually kill? Firemen, no doubt its a dangerous job but then so is driving a truck and while the death rate of professional drivers number the hundreds its rare, very rare, for a fireman to die.
There's no doubt that in the grand scheme of things a fireman is worth more than a traffic warden but I just wish we wouldn't put them on such high pedestals. Public service is a worthy occupation and on the whole its relatively well rewarded too.
Meanwhile, many quite ordinary folk go out to work in far less glamorous and poorly paid jobs... and some, will unfortunately succumb to industrial disease, injury or accident. But you'll never hear of them being fêted as heroes.
Fairness is a two-way street... and just for once I like to see some of the traffic going in the other direction too.
I know a large percentage of them are wasting their time and our money doing the square root of fuck all 95% of the time, but throwing 2-3 million on the dole in one fell swoop is probably not the answer. The state needs to shrink by perhaps 2-3% each and every year for maybe 10 years. At the same time, the savings should be used to reduce the debt and stimulate the private sector.The light at the end of the tunnel will be the death of socialism and low taxes. However, this is the last thing the politicians want.
Urban11
John Pickworth,
You mention nursing is not dangerous? Try going in your local A&E on a friday night. I genuinely hope you never need the emergency services for anything. What you are stating is that other than the armed services (the people who do the killing on behalf of the Government in illegal wars) everyone else don't deserve their pension?
Does your employer (if you have one) contribute towards your pension? Just so happens that my employer is the tax payer and I would welcome a local tax to pay for my wages.
I'm not disagreeing with what the Capt'n said I am just pointing out that there are some who do deserve a decent retirement in exchange for a working life full of life threatening danger, abuse and disgusting shit.
But my main point which could have been better explained is that the Government are sensing that ever increasing members of the public are waking up to the fact that we are ALL being taken for a ride so divisions in society need to be created in order to distract the public from the REAL problems facing us and make controlling us easier.
Fuck the pensions, nothing will be achieved by strikes but as the Capt'n rightly pointed out if public services are withdrawn then the public who pay for them should demand a refund of taxes. Will that happen? I seriously doubt it because the people of this country have become pathetic, whinging idiots who talk a good talk but when it comes down to it roll over and accept the scrapps from MP's table.
If you don't like it, do something about it.
Joey P
Notice the wording by the parasite class that these will be one day strikes.
These lice know they cannot shut down the country like the miners or power workers could, most haulage is non unionised private sector too.
The tactic is to draw in the Leftie trouble makers to do the dirty work then state they only wanted a peaceful protest causing as much damage as possible.
I do wish we could issue the plod with 0.50 calibre brownings ,hell i'd man one myself.
Unions are racketeers. That what they do. Manage rackets. They don't represent the working man. They represent their political ambitions. Oh, and make a tidy living out of it too.
I'm a working man (private sector). I look after myself better than any union could. All the unions seem to do is wreck businesses and markets. How many real ,productive jobs have the unions created against destroyed. THAT would be an interesting statistic to digest.
I have many friends in the public sector and they don't trust their own unions either btw.
Unions are just another piece in the Orwellian bully state. The front line thugs who ensure their master's plans are imposed on the rest of us. The game is up though. We see you and what you stand for now you bunch of authoritarian kunts! Go! Strike! Taste the apathy among the rest of us. My bin doesn't get emptied I'm dumping it at the door of the nearest union man.
By the way, wanna bet against 'events' happening during these strikes and this resulting in the Govt 'reacting vigorously' to protect us by further eroding our liberties?
Tenner on the table.
Anyone?
I don't like to see anyone loosing their BUT the truth is most of these jobs were created by Liebour for votes. In fact I would like to see anyone appointed by Liebour including senior police made to reapply for their jobs.
There was only 50,000 public sector workers in 1900 for both central and local government.
See House of Lords Hansard
HL Deb 07 May 1980 vol 408 cc1655-98
No computers, efficient systems, civil service entry examination very difficult. And they ran the Empire.
Read and weep!
LMAO at the Cap'n!
My, that was a rant and a half and a good one at that.
Still chuckling.
"WTF do you all do? In amongst your number are unwanted administrators, unrelenting jobsworths, unnecessary Outreach Coordinators For The Emancipation Of One-Legged Blind Slovakian Lesbians With Learning Disabilities With A Penchant For Stamp-Collecting, and the like."
FUCKING CLASSIC!
You know Cap'n, the larger the amount of public sector workers, the more petty bureaucracy, political correctness and further down the road to a total information society (totalitarianism). I'm sure you already know that as we've already had it before. It was called the U.S.S.R.
Chuckling still at your rant.
Harbinger
Yes but don't you think it's a good thing? The more pressure on the fake fiat economy the better! I applaud them, hell i don't pay tax anyway! And ranty if you believed what you say neither would you! You see captain it's my opinion that if you pay tax, you are somewhat to blame for torture, mass murder, nation building etc etc... Do you pay your tv licence too captain? Don't get me wrong, i like you, but hey lets grow up and stand up now ay? Why cry about the system if you're going to continue to be part of it?... You don't have to explain yourself to me, but as a reader i'm very interested in your response.
Bang on Capt'n.
Not posted for a while because I'm doing my homework, but felt compelled to give up a little of my time to throw my hat in the ring so to speak. (http://freedomfiles.org/mary-book.pdf) A must read for anyone who wants to know how to play the game we call life in the 21st century.
Pretty much sums up the public sector. The only type of job where it's harder to get the sack than a one legged man winning a stand up arse kicking contest! I know this first hand and have seen people turn up to work pissed on several occasions and only sent home, bollocked and ordered to see the french occupational health company the governemnt pays hundreds of millions to.
The public sector is a joke, yourself and "Joey P" make a valid point about some amongst them deserve a decent pension after a working life full of shit and I agree, I'd be happy to pay a local tax for them.
Most of them wouldn't last 2 seconds in the private sector with the way they behave and deserve to be thrown in with the rest of the "entitled" we seem to be carrying these days.
If that classic rant was an e-petition, I'd sign it in a heart beat.
Nice one,
Aldo!
In reply to Joey P....
"What you are stating is that other than the armed services... everyone else don't deserve their pension?
That's not the point I was making. I'm asking 'if' the police, teachers, nurses etc are really more important than say the chap in the nuclear power plant keeping the lights shining or the farmer putting food on your table no matter the weather or those that keep the sewers working? The usual refrain is that the emergency services personnel risk their lives and are therefore more special. I happen to disagree and the stats show that a great many other occupations are far more hazardous to health and life. And yet, these people are rarely celebrated as heroes by the GBP!
".... there are some who do deserve a decent retirement in exchange for a working life full of life threatening danger, abuse and disgusting shit."
Or... you could simply be a librarian or work in a coffee shop instead. Lets be honest here, every 10 y/o boy wants to be a fireman (or an astronaut) there's hardly a shortage of willing recruits.
"Does your employer contribute towards your pension?"
I'll only get a pension if I can blow the local bank vault before the cops show up. It might surprise you to learn that very many people out here in the real world slave away and get NO pension. I've never had a cushy job, never even worked a 9 till 5. But I'm proud that the little I have is mine, I've earned it. All I'm saying is that maybe its time for others to do the same.
"Just so happens that my employer is the tax payer and I would welcome a local tax to pay for my wages."
I'm sure you would. The problem is a lot of us are getting pretty fed up paying your wages. Look, if you want a fab pension then bloody well go save for one. Why should I keep you in comfort in you old (or retired early and not so old) age?
Look Joey, I'm not having a go at you personally. For all I know you are probably doing a great job, the colleague next to you the same... damn it, your entire department might be a national treasure. But, as a country, we're seriously bust and there is worse to come. Its time to slam on the brakes and roll back the State. We can't afford you.
Reply to John Pickworth,
I think we are both arriving at the same conclusion from opposite ends of the argument here. I totally agree with you that we do need to apply the brakes here but the people who are esential to our society are being vilified because of the complete and utter ridiculous quangos and the over staffing of certain government depts.
I know this subject is a sore one for the tax payer, I feel it as a tax payer too. The big issue with public sector workers is what have the MP's done with their pensions? Bugger all! They and the other greedy bastards at the top get to keep their massive pensions. It stinks, That's why people at the bottom of the ladder in the public sector are pissed off.
"Or... you could simply be a librarian or work in a coffee shop instead. Lets be honest here, every 10 y/o boy wants to be a fireman (or an astronaut) there's hardly a shortage of willing recruits."
In no way am I intending to be arrogant, insulting to anyone else or looking for sypathy but a large number of people in this country couldn't do my job. Not every 10 year old boy grows up to be capable of becoming a firefighter.
I work in a category A prison, what would happen if we all decided to become librarians or work in a coffee shops? It's not that good anyway. This argument for me will be pointless soon when they privatise UK prisons to make a profit from the less fortunate. (don't give a shit about the people that should be there but in my opinion there are some in prison who shouldn't be)
I have received threats to my life (not bothered by that), my wife and sons life (that does bother me) on lots of occasions for doing my job. If we all did this job for the pension some of us wouldn't volunteer to attend riots.
I was involved in the one day strike in 2010 and we achieved nothing other than losing a days pay. I truly believe this is an exercise for union leaders to advance their own political careers and the Governments loving it because this issue has divided another section of the public.
Anyway if it makes you feel better there are 1000's of prison officers looking for alternative careers (me included) so that means 1000's of pensions off the tax payers bill. (yes if we resign we don't even get back as much as we contribute so the tax payer will actually make a profit)
Anger is being directed at the wrong people.
Hope you can see my point of view.
Joey P
I do see your point of view Joey... and I have more sympathy than is evident in my comments.
I can't actually fault your argument to be honest and I guess that is why I'm striving for different answers to those we're usually given.
But while its easy to blame the MPs I'm not sure that is the whole answer. Frankly, we really need to start thinking more fundamentally about what services we want/need/afford and then how we're going to pay for them. It doesn't matter where you look, whether here or overseas, the system we and others currently have is so obviously unsustainable. Within less than a 100 years (for developed nations) we've practically hit our overdraft limits. A generation ago a possible (but unpopular) solution was to tax everyone until the pips squeaked. That's not going to work now...
So what's the answer?
John picksworth... I would have respect for prison officers if people were not locked up for victimless non violent crimes! As they do, i'll have to say you are part of the problem! You say you're planning on a new career, that's great, but you should be making a moral stand not a financial one! If you are holding people against their will due to them not paying immoral tax, then you are immoral... If you are holding people who have chosen to take a substance, you are immoral! Even if you are holding people that have sold substances to people who wish to buy them, you are immoral!... Just doing my job is no excuse! Have you even bothered to speak out about it? Probably not... As for threats against you and your family that's unfortunate but i could understand it if it was coming from an innocent man (unlikely) or someone kidnapped for choosing to put a substance into his body! Now don't get me wrong, i would never condone threats like that and i would never make them myself, but i can understand the frustration and pain someone might feel in the circumstances i outlined. I know you mean well and you probably do want to improve society, but we need to really look at what we're doing! We have to evaluate our actions against a moral benchmark! For too long people have been concerned with money and consumerism! Neither does any good for society! Now i'm not coming from bible morals etc, but more common sense! Some of which may well coincide with the teachings in the bible, such as murder and theft! There are far far too many laws aimed at controling another persons freedom of choice! This should never be allowed! If you read this you may well take it as an attack against you, really it's not, i just want you to see i different perspective. I hope you can understand my ramblings and my libertarian, non aggression principle, standpoint.
I do apologise john pickworth, my comment is actually and probably very obviously aimed at the chap who replied to you... And i also apologise for butting in on your conversation... May i just say i think you're both arguing about something that is irrelevant! The whole economic system is a fraud and only set up to aid the bankers to steal from both of you! You should both just drop the small technicalities of a corrupt immoral system and point your obvious intelligence and debate towards the real issues... I'm going to come across like i'm preaching, and i seriously don't want to be some type of leader! Or preacher! But i feel i have to inject the real issues every chance i get! FREEDOM should be the main topic, because if not our children will inherit an ever increasing tyranny! Already we are getting more and more thought crime stories! Which to me is the very bottom! If you don't even have control of your own mind what.s the point in being human? Anyway i wish you both well. nd probably very obviously aimed at the chap who replied to you... And i also apologise for butting in on your conversation... May i just say i think you're both arguing about something that is irrelevant! The whole economic system is a fraud and only set up to aid the bankers to steal from both of you! You should both just drop the small technicalities of a corrupt immoral system and point your obvious intelligence and debate towards the real issues... I'm going to come across like i'm preaching, and i seriously don't want to be some type of leader! Or preacher! But i feel i have to inject the real issues every chance i get! FREEDOM should be the main topic, because if not our children will inherit an ever increasing tyranny! Already we are getting more and more thought crime stories! Which to me is the very bottom! If you don't even have control of your own mind what.s the point in being human? Anyway i wish you both well.
No problem Anonymous... I realised whom you were addressing.
I have to say though, that while freedom is clearly a worthy goal I'm not so sure that absolute freedom will ever be achievable. Why? Because too many people have vested interests in making the current system work in their favour... be it policemen who say they must be armed against a largely unarmed public, nurses who say they should get a bigger pension than you because they're more extra special or the home owner who swears at the bankers on the tv news but then demands their cheap money to buy their house.
Put simply, there are far too many of us are parcelled up into one special group or other and all demanding 'our' right/share of whatever is going.
It needs to stop. We have to prise the State's dirty fingers off our wallets and similarly we need to tell those who feed off the State that the game is up.
Its not just the bankers, the politicians, the unions, the media or the unworking class... its all of them. It's us too; the ones who have allowed them to take with one hand while handing back (minus their cut) with the other hand.
Anonymous.
I think you miss my point. Apart from being slightly annoyed that you say I'm immoral. If you read my post I stated I believe there are people who shouldn't be in prison and peole who definately should for the rest of their lives. I joined the job to help keep the public safe and maybe help reform one or two misguided souls on the way. (which I have done and can evidence) You obviously have never done my job, I am not allowed an opinion and if I voice my concerns I will be a)ridiculed (which doesn't bother me) b) hauled infrom of management to explain my actions and c) won't be in a job for much longer. When you join you are told to leave your opinions at the gates. After 12 years it changes you as a person. Yes I am looking for another career but that does not reflect on the work I do now. I pride myself on being professional at work and treat people with respect despite the fact I have been assaulted countless times, spat on, had piss, shit, blood and puke thrown at me and because we are evil and immoral I am supposed to take that and not expect some sort of reward?
I have also attended numerous "acts of inconserted discapline" (riots) voluntarily and been in some very scary situations.............. Fuck this......... I actually agree with what you are saying as a public sector worker.... We are playing right in to TPTB's hands by arguing amongst ourselves. I left my little rant on there to highlight the point below.
We all need to stick together and put a stop to those theiving bastards by using their own rules.
I said it before on an earlier post: "talk about devide and conquer".
I hope your lives are filled with happiness and you are never privy to the things I have witnessed.
Genuinely, all the best to you all.
Joey P
To correct my last post..... Yeah read it back a little later and was quite passionate.
Whilst ranting I ment to say after stating I had been assaulted etc..... I am labelled evil and immoral and shouldn't expect some reward for years of useful service? I am not stating I am either of those things... Quite the opposite......
There are people who are not worth the money but there is far more who are that I have and do work with.
Just incase you think I am wanting a better pension, I am not. All I (and probably most of the public sector) want is fairness. I pay a decent ammount towards my pension and yes it does need looking at but in my opinion, surely after rooting out these lazy parasites who are leeching off the system so they can do fuck all apart from smoke weed and watch Jeremy Kyle? No problem with anyone doing either, (why is beyond me) just dont expect the taxpayer to keep them. MP's sort out their use of the public purse and stop taking the piss with their pensions, expenses and look at foreign aid, the list goes on and on. They need to trim the fat by getting rid of pointless depts, quangos, non-jobs and use the best staff to replace the dick heads they end up employing in various roles, therefore ensuring the best peforming staff are employed. They're treating it like it's a business. They should start acting like it is.
Getting a bit passionate again. :0)
I do wish you and John Pickworth all the best.
Joey P
John pickworth... I'm going to sound abrupt and for very good reason, the time for action is now! Your message is defeatist! So ok, lay down, submit! You want to be here to talk about your demise!? Not me! step aside! I mean it in the nicest possible way.
Now to anonymous! That's more like it! I like a bit of passion!... I suppose I called you immoral to stir some thought but also because my main objective is truth! Straight up no bullshit reality! Now I do not doubt your intentions are pure! I can see that, but your intentions are not the point!... Ok lets say for example I decide to don some pants on the outside of a leotard one day, I decide I'm going to help old people cross the road! I make sure I'm always on hand, spending all my time seeking out the retired in need! Now I decide one day to push a couple under a bus! Am I immoral? But hey I helped thousands of those old bastards cross the road! More would of died if I'd not been there!... The answer is pretty obvious! Now I know you are not responsible for putting people there, however, you are responsible for keeping them there! Which is just as bad no? You are a cog in the system! I believe we need prisons and police etc, but in this system of corruption and lies it's neither here nor there!... I have more reasons to call you immoral, you pay tax! That money is then spent on torture and murder! The so called benefit scroungers and pot heads have one up on you there! In fact to take money of those murdering bastards is by far the better more moral route! Every pound you take is a step closer to collapse! If more people took than gave how would the system exist?... If you pay tax you are directly funding terrorism! But I hear you! We need you! We need everyone to wake the fuck up and grow up! Stop thinking about security in later life via a pension! The whole system is fake! THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO LOOK AFTER YOU WHEN YOU GET OLD! But not via some fiat currency ponzi scheme! How dare the government borrow imaginary money that unborn future generations will be forced to pay! It's a big giant scam! I can point to a whole host of reasons why, but it's pointless! First we have to break down every action we take and apply it to morals! Oh and one more thing on the benefits front, I find it funny that when you work you deem it right to pay tax to fund services, yet when you want or need to take a service you are looked on as scum! Another reason not to pay in the first place!....
.... To do the job you do requires balls! Big hairy balls! But why are you not using them against the real enemy! What is the point of locking up some murderers and rapists if we let the biggest fish go? Iraq and I believe afghanistan were deemed illegal wars! Yet who is punished? Again I don't want to get to much into specifics because it just leads to more bullshit conversations! Shit is real bad! FACT! We all know this, SO WHAT WILL WE DO? You say you have worked 12 years? If you speak out you will be intimidated or laughed at! I say pick up those big hairy balls of yours and march out there and shout at the top of your lungs! Tell them it is immoral to lock people up who pose no danger to people or property! Come what may!... I just watched a great film, sucker punch! Boy oh boy, that director has got it! While I was watching it I thought what the hell is this mess! But then things became clearer! It is about the battle of freedom! She had to find certain objects to escape! the last was hidden and it turned out to be her! She needed to sacrifice herself to give another freedom! We all need to do the same! No more bullshit! We either submit to tyranny and go down a road of slavery! Or we say NO MORE and pave the way to freedom for future generations! Yes we'll be laughed at! Yes we will be beaten and killed! But ideas are bulletproof as they say! Anyone that doesn't want to fight (figuratively) need only step out of the way!... We need community! We need to help others step up or step aside! Those who decide to fight for true freedom need to support each other in anyway possible! Forget cars, sport, women, money etc etc! They are all used to distract and control! Fuck them and their games! I SEE THEM! The question is i suppose, DO YOU?
Just for the record I am far from perfect and I in no way mean to single you out and attack your character, more so your choices I suppose! I want to attack your fundamentals! Give them a good shake up! I want to turbo charge your passion in the hope that you will join the fight for freedom! We are told we are weak! We can not change the system! We can not fight the system! I say fuck off and step aside! I'm going to fight them! tooth and nail! But more ghandi style than rambo! We need mass non compliance! I hope you take my comments in the spirit they are intended.
Oh and joey p, when the collapse comes and the criminals are ousted I would want you as a policeman! I can see you have integrity! I can see you do not do it for the power! People like you are needed desperately! whether you know it or not people like you will be the deciding factor! I am a nobody, you however have a long history of service to a system most of society see's as justice! (even though it's far from it)... Your voice carries a lot of weight! You are powerful! That is why if you spoke out you would be ridiculed or brought in front of some board or other for intimidation! They fear you!
Anonymous said...
John pickworth... I'm going to sound abrupt and for very good reason, the time for action is now! Your message is defeatist!
Its actually realist! (go read it again)
No offence taken by the way.
Short of the Government gunning people down in the streets we're never going to rise up... we simply don't have the motivation for an 'Arab Spring' here.
But we can push to have certain parts of the state apparatus dismantled. We should start with the unproductive, unprofitable and wasteful elements first. As each day passes (yes, it is that urgent) the bills get ever larger and it will have to be paid back one day. And in case you haven't noticed, we don't have any great natural resources in this country except for what the Government (current and future) can take in taxes.
Your problem isn't freedom... its how not to end up a slave!
john pickworth... Do you know how defeatist you sound? You say you're a realist, but you have just been fooled into thinking that you can not do anything!... We can do anything we put our minds to... I don't want an arab spring, none of those countries have won freedom, they are all still ruled by someone! Even to get that they had to beg! I will not vote nor protest, they are both forms of begging your master!... You see like many people you think you can change the government, you think you can get them to change their ways from the inside and give their power away! That will never happen!... You probably even think we live in a democracy, we do not! It's all fake!... If your way was possible why don't you join the kkk or a nazi group in the hope you can change their ways and make them see the light?... What i suggest is total non compliance! Do not pay tax! You have a moral duty to not fund terrorism!... If i said to you, hey give me some money i want to buy a gun to kill some people! You probably won't be giving me anything right?... But what is different when the corrupt lying government is involved?... Do you actually think you are free right now? The only thing you are free to do is vote in your tyrant every 4 years!... To prove you are not free why don't you choose to not be part of the system!? See how that works out for you... you're a realist, but you have just been fooled into thinking that you can not do anything!... We can do anything we put our minds to... I don't want an arab spring, none of those countries have won freedom, they are all still ruled by someone! Even to get that they had to beg! I will not vote nor protest, they are both forms of begging your master!... You see like many people you think you can change the government, you think you can get them to change their ways from the inside and give their power away! That will never happen!... You probably even think we live in a democracy, we do not! It's all fake!... If your way was possible why don't you join the kkk or a nazi group in the hope you can change their ways and make them see the light?... What i suggest is total non compliance! Do not pay tax! You have a moral duty to not fund terrorism!... If i said to you, hey give me some money i want to buy a gun to kill some people! You probably won't be giving me anything right?... But what is different when the corrupt lying government is involved?... Do you actually think you are free right now? The only thing you are free to do is vote in your tyrant every 4 years!... To prove you are not free why don't you choose to not be part of the system!? See how that works out for you!
The national debt is a lie! It is put in place as a mechanism for control! For enslavement! How can you borrow money on the back of future generations labour? It's all a giant fiction! All you need to do is wake up and not accept it anymore! What will they do? Imprison me? Ok that's good, it will cost them more to keep me locked up! Imagine if everyone just stopped paying tax tomorrow? What would happen? How would they arrest everyone? And even if they did how would they get their tax with everyone locked up? Lol... It's really quite simple... We are trained to think a certain way, all the way through school etc, that is the purpose of school! We are trained to think by the tv! That's why they call it programming! It's programming you!...
Anonymous,
After reading your posts to me and John Pickworth I now get exactly what you are saying and that is exactly why I want out. I don't want to be part of any of it. It does however leave me with a few questions.
You would need a majority in this country to take action to acheive the goal you stated but how the hell could we get everyone to stop complying at the same time?
How could you trust that the majority of people will do it? (almost like the line of people stepping backwards and leaving you out on your own)
How can you stop paying income tax when it's taken before anyone employed gets their wages? (what sort of theft is that?)
I believe we are coming to to a major pivotal time in the timeline of our species and that feeling that most people have got is being mis-directed on very many subjects but all subjects lead to one place/one question. Are we prepared to put up with totalitarian control and slavery or are we to stand up and take back what is rightfully ours for our children, grandchildren and generations to come? We are certainly in for a rough ride either way.
I'm not saying its impossible or all is lost but there are holes in this idea that need to be sewn up first or make no mistake, we will be hung out to dry.
Joey P
Thank you joey! You have raised some very good questions, my take is that we can not worry about what other people will do! We have to lead by example! We will not be violent unless it is for self defence! We will take the moral high ground! We will tell people that they are immoral! We will tell them the truth! No compromise!You are dead right, people will not follow just like that! I know, but it doesn't matter! You see if they come to get me for living my life as a human being as I see fit, then they will clearly be immoral and have no ground to stand on! We need to stop caring what happens to us! I am fully prepared to be taken out or taken away! I don't care because if I don't make a stand my kids will be living in even more filth! As I do not care and as I am prepared, what can they do to me? They hold no power over me!... How can you avoid paying tax if they take it from you? and how is it theft? The theft part is pretty obvious! If you went to a shop a paid for a 5 pound item with a ten pound note, but they only gave you 2 pounds back, would you not recognise it as theft? If a company takes the tax for the government get another form of income!! I'm not suggesting you quit your job tomorrow, unless you have savings then go for it! I suggest changing our whole outlook on life! Grow your own food! keep chickens! Educate your own children! Become free incrementally! I'm getting there! Eventually I want to be at the point where I take nothing out and I put nothing in! We have to lead by example! The notion that everyone will stand up at the same time is not going to happen! It will not be easy! But first and foremost we have to be firm in our minds that we will take no more of this fucking shit! We have to get angry! Then we have to direct that anger! I don't have all the answers, I hope other people will help me! But whether they do or not is not a concern I have!... I'd like to say joey I thank you for having an open mind! Maybe we can discuss things further via skype? Oh my name is barry btw, as I know yours I thought it only fair.
sorry I misread the part about tax, you said what kind of theft is it? Hmmm the theft kind of theft I suppose!... I also have a message for captain ranty, you did not answer my question! I take it that you can not answer or do not want to answer? Captain you pay for terrorism! You pay for torture! You pay for murder! How can you sleep at night? How can you live with yourself? How can you create this website complaining about the situation yet help to continue it! Do you not think the time to get real is now?
Oh and joey (or anyone else seeking freedom) Search 'lauryn hill i get out' on youtube! Powerful song!
Anon (Barry),
I will answer any question put to me. I have nothing to hide. (Apart from my identity, for the time being).
Since I started this blog, and my long, slow road to freedom, I stated that I would be doing it one step at a time.
I have already engaged, and enraged, several government departments. This attempt to disengage should not be rushed. It deserves deep research and I have done/am doing that research. I am not (yet) in a position to completely disconnect. I advise everyone to tread carefully, and I take my own advice very seriously.
Do I pay tax? Yes.
Do I have a passport? I have two.
Do I pay council tax? Yes.
Am I happy with any of that? No.
Before I move on I have to win at least one of the four or five fights I have picked with the government. This will encourage me to continue and it will inspire others to try it for themselves.
I have learned that all of our circumstances are slightly different and we must all progress at a pace we are comfortable with.
Some people will do this, but most will not. They will take the path of least resistance, which is to say, they will do nothing.
I am happy with my successes to date. I will not be rushed into anything by you, or by anyone else. I say this with kindness, not with arrogance.
There is no silver bullet. No "one size fits all". This is still a fledgling idea and great care needs to be taken.
They have all the guns, remember?
CR.
So you are saying that we should live in fear? If they shoot me I do not care! They will merely show themselves! that is good! I do see what you're saying, but how long do you wait?... If we operate on a purely moral level then the system will crash! How can you sleep at night knowing the money you give to the government is used to murder and torture people? You are guilty of accessory are you not? I agree that people should get educated (real education that is, not schooling), but I don't think that will happen due to the system! So in my very humble opinion the only way to counter this is to use morals! Everyone knows murder is wrong! As is paying someone to murder! Using just that one senario we can show paying tax is immoral! You take your time captain, but while you are, why complain?
Sorry I meant to say that will NOT happen due to the system.
To be honest captain from reading your comment again it seems to me like you are hedging your bets! Sitting on the fence to see what will happen! In which case move aside!
Barry,
We have been trained to live in fear.
I have lost the fear and I am fighting back. Just because my way doesn't match your way exactly does not allow you to judge me.
I am not waiting: I am picking my fights with care. The alternative is to rush into a gunfight armed with a plastic knife. I only start fights I know I can win. I am getting better at this.
Guilty of supporting illegal wars and the wholesale murder of foreigners? Yes I am. ALL taxpayers are.
How did you stop paying taxes? Do you have a job? Do you never buy anything? Do you have a car? Do you buy fuel? Then you still support the government.
Show me how you stopped paying a single penny in tax and I will believe that you have absolutely disconnected and can afford to sleep comfy in your bed at night.
You make some bold claims, my friend. I have yet to discover anyone (living in the UK) that pays no tax at all, on anything.
Do share the secret.
CR.
Well to be fair I can actually judge what I wish, though I may be wrong to do so... How do I not pay tax? I do not work for people that steal money off me to pay tax... I am currently and recently self employed, I am in receipt of working tax credit which offsets any tax I pay for the things I buy! I do not drive. I do not have a passport and will not get one either... I have 2 children (one is not by blood) with one on the way, I registered my first who is now 2 due to still being asleep! I will not register my son to be! I told the eldest (5) i'm willing to home educate last school year, to which see accepted a few weeks later so we removed her! I too am getting there bit by bit, I grew my own food for the first time this year, next i'm getting chickens, the system I have right now means I take more than I give! Which is preferable to funding murder... I'm not saying everything should happen instantly, i've said that to joey! If you can then sure do it, but we really we need to push this now! That is why I am "judging", I just want to give a kick start to people! I mean no offence, I thin you can grasp where i'm coming from, at least I hope you can.
I grasp it alright.
I see someone relatively young, and relatively new to all this.
You made some accusations, actually, you repeated them several times about funding the wars, and then we discover that you fund them too!
"...which offsets any tax I pay for the things I buy!"-there's the proof right there.
The government taxes everything. If you buy anything, and I really do mean anything at all, you are funding the wars.
Even buying a loaf of bread makes you as guilty as I am. You buy a loaf, the maker pays taxes, so you are assisting.
I KNOW it is illegal under the laws that came out of Nuremburg, to fund miltary personnel and ordinance to fight foreign wars, but until the government recognises this fact we are going to lose.
I am in the 4th year of this battle for my own personal freedom. To be honest, if it takes me another 30 years to get where I am going I will be happy.
I am awake, but it isn't enough. I need another couple of million to join me. In four years I have helped to wake up perhaps 50 people.
I am both pleased and bitterly disappointed at the same time. Almost 30,000 people come to read my stuff every month. Yet only a fraction of 1% do anything to enforce change.
You want to kick start people? Offer them proof that YOUR way works.
CR.
I'd just like to add captain that I thank you for accepting my point of view here and for not requiring me to register to comment! Also for not moderating what is said! I found that a lot on the freeman sites and I don't like it one bit, it's a shame because their information and stance is valuable... I like you(not that I know you lol) and your site a lot I just think we got to get going now, before it's too late.
I agree absolutely.
We ALL need to get started. Today.
Most people are terrified of questioning "authority".
It's a shame, but it is a fact.
I remain free today despite withholding over 5K from the taxman. NOT paying taxes is a cardinal sin yet I beat them. With words.
I do not know why people are afraid. I know only that they are.
CR.
You are neglecting to acknowledge that I take money off the government too! I take more than I give! So I am not funding anything. My situation is not perfect and not how I would want it, but it's all that is available right now and far more satisfactory to paying EVERYTHING! Well I'm not quite sure what age has to do with this, if you would like to know I'm 30 years old, though I have fought the system in my own way my whole life! I put myself into care when I was 14! I walked out of school shortly before! I didn't know why at the time but I knew the world was not right! My dad would refuse to take us to mcdonalds because he said they funded the IRA. At the time I thought so what if they do? We are on their land right? We have shot their people! Why the hell wouldn't they defend themselves! I've lived on my own since I was 16 (baring the past few years i've spent with my now partner and children) and in that time I saw a lot! My father left when I was around 8, at the time I had 3 sisters and was told by my mum I was the man of the house! I grew up quick!... The reason I left home in highnsight (don't know how that's spelt) was because my whole family were establishment through and through! I could see no sense in their logic! I would fight with them constantly!.... Anyway look I know you are doing good, I guess I just share the frustration you have! I'm way more impatient and i'm making a stand NOW! I don't care if I "lose" a battle (go to prison?) because I know I can not lose! I am only living my life from a moral and philosophical standpoint! If that makes my life collide with a so called "authority" then so be it!
I don't care that you take money off the government. If you dig deep enough in my archives you will discover that you funded your whole life by the time you were six weeks old. Keep taking the money if you need to.
It's the greedy that I despise, hence the post. Those that demand the best pension in the world ever, but don't want to contribute towards it.
You continually miss the point though: You ARE funding the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya whether you see it or not. The only way you DON'T fund those wars is to never buy anything.
Your hands are no cleaner than mine.
I am also prepared to go to gaol (there are no prisons on dry land. Prisons are only found on ships) but I will not go for the sake of a mistake I made. Fight by all means, but FFS be prepared before you go into battle. Too many of us rush in, fuck it up, and find themselves sharing a room with Big Vern. Don't be one of those.
Your age has nothing to do with anything. I was just pointing out that you seem unprepared, unlearned. Your enthusiasm is admirable. All I ask is that you spend more time learning the game, then, and only then, can you beat them.
It is spelled hindsight but I knew what you meant.
Fight on Barry, but fight smart.
CR.
Well it's great that you managed to perhaps help some people not getting tortured! :0 lol... I think it's the dumbing down of society as well to be honest. Recently the doctor (obviously a clever guy right?) asked my partner to come in because of some blood test results, there was no mention of the problem, we phoned in and asked what was the problem? They wouldn't tell us so we went along. While we were there he asked my partner a series of questions, regarding her overall health, then informed us that her iron was low! The threshold is 10 (what units I have no idea) and she was at 9! 1 point below the threshold was the cause of all the fuss? So anyway he prescribed her some iron tablets, I asked him what was in it! "just iron"? He said "erm erm yes yes just iron.... basically". To which I said "is it basically or actually"!..."well I don't know the exact composition erm erm"... He wanted my pregnant partner to take something for which he didn't know even the ingredients! I tell him that pharma companies want us to take this shit because it makes them money! duh!... He informed me that they do not get medication from pharma anymore (blatant lie), wait, what? Of course you do doctor! All the drugs are from pharma!... Anyway I get home and check out the shit for myself! It contained sodium lauryl sulphate! As i'm sure you're aware this is a degreasent! It also contained parafin, mmmm yum!... Now am I stupid for thinking that iron comes from food? So couldn't he of offered some advice instead? Oh and by the way the pills were from a pharma company! The most important part is when I looked on drugs.com, it said it is not known if the stuff can harm an unborn baby!... Now this Dr is supposed to be smart right? oh he was old too!... My point is the population is being dumbed down!... I know you're probably well aware of this, more so than myself no doubt!... I think the only thing that can wake these people up en mass is to live by example, I plan to live my life without conforming to a damn thing! And telling people what I'm doing! I would really like to make some sort of support network for people that want to opt out, but I would much rather you did it! lol... You have a great site here so you are obviously well versed in site building?... Anyway captain I'm not against you, I just think there is sometimes too much convo about the issues rather than action taken!
Captain what you say doesn't make much sense, I'm sorry... Ok on one hand you say I have paid for everything already (I've read up on this too, we're floated on the stock market etc), But then you condemn people that are paying even more tax (when everything is paid for) and wanting to take out some in later years (which they already paid for at age 6)... What problem do you have with that? You complain because you pay tax, yet it's the government that steals that from you (on top of making money out of you on the stock exchange) not them!.... Anyway you may think me unprepared but I am not, I know full well what I'm getting into, I know I will no doubt spend some time behind bars! It has to be done! What will be will be! I'm not going to use their immoral system against them etc... Also I don't get how I'm funding wars with money that I got from them originally! Believe me I have no guilt or blood on my hands! I have paid tax in my time, but I have taken far more! Far far more! By not buying anything I could in effect take even more! But then I would die! So I'll just settle for what I already take.
I see you use the word greedy, what is greedy about someone doing a job and paying tax AND paying into a pension that they are now having reduced! Shit I'd be pissed too! But the main point is the whole fiat economy is bullshit, do you not agree? I love every minute of the economy crashing because it allows more people to listen to YOU! Why attack the people you want to awaken? Shouldn't you be on their side? Shouldn't you use the situation to point at the culprits?
Barry,
I complain because they are greedy. They want more than others. Worse, they want ME to fund their big fat pensions. How is that fair? Why is that NOT greedy? Meanwhile, pensioners have to decide between heat or food. I actually don't mind them getting more money, just make it the same for all. I can't stand disparity.
You seem to think that because you didn't buy the gun, you have clean hands. You don't. You still buy the bullets.
I can't make this any simpler: if you buy stuff (any stuff), the companies you buy it from pay taxes. Those taxes fund the wars. You are not removed from the process however hard you try and however loud you shout. It doesn't matter that you do't pay taxes directly, the war machine is still funded by you indirectly.
It is not my job to lead. I am neither sheep nor shepherd. When/if people realise they are getting shafted, they will find the path. They need to lead themselves.
The most I can do is point out the signposts, and perhaps explain now and then why the signposts were hidden from view.
Ultimately, the decision to be free rests with each and every one of us.
CR.
No, no, no captain it seems like you are arguing because you do not want to admit you are wrong! You hate the system right? You know the system is corrupt! You know in fact the system is a lie! You know that tax itself is theft... You shouldn't be paying tax anyway as you have paid for everything already! Do those people force you to pay tax? The government forces you! And you comply! You should stand in solidarity with them as what they are doing or plan to do is helping to bring the system down! Which is what we all want! Isn't it?... Now let me try to explain the tax from my point of view! You pay the government, the government pays me, then i give the government a bit back! I have not funded any wars! You have and I've taken some of it away! correct? You can keep repeating that if I buy something it's paying tax, but it isn't my money anyway! It's yours!... Or there is another angle to look at, they have paid for everything already, yes? So they have this big pot just sitting there! when they get older they want to take from that pot! They can take as much of their own money as they like! surely! This in no way correlates to your payments of tax! Please point to where I am wrong here?... The government isn't spending YOUR money on pensions it's spending it on killing people and lining their own pockets!... This is classic divide and conquer, why fight each other over a ridiculous lying corrupt system!? To be honest if you fail to admit your error I will have no alternative other than to become suspicious of you!
I don't see an argument here.
You say that you have a clear conscience because you don't think you fund the wars. Of course you do. Just because the money you receive is (in your mind) "laundered" first, it doesn't reduce your guilt by one iota.
Just because you cannot grasp the point does not mean I am wrong. Who do you think you are kidding Barry?
Yes, the system is corrupt. Yes, all taxation is illegal and unlawful. I continue to fight that. When I have a fool-proof method, and a string of victories, I will announce it to all who care to read about it and take some action of their own.
You are wrong about the big pot. There is no pot. They wasted it. All of it. And they borrowed more to fund the shortfall. We have all been screwed, and you want me to unite with those who want to be paid more for the same screwing? No way, Jose. These leeching lefty bastards are not on my side. They never will be. They are in this for themselves and fuck anyone else who gets in their way.
I have made no error but you are welcome to be as suspicious as you like. Hell, I'd welcome that.
You don't have to believe what I write here, in fact, I actively encourage people to check and double check for themselves.
You are not the first to doubt my research and you won't be the last.
CR.
I see no research here, I see only a lack of reasoning! I don't produce any paper money! It's just given to me for nothing! none of my labour is going towards it! Would you rather I said that? I do not work/provide labour to fund the war! Is that better? The people committing the murders are the ones giving me some paper, this is why eventually I don't even want that! Captain read back through your comments, you said i'd already paid everything since i was 6 months and I should keeping taking what I need! Now when it suits you the pot is gone! lol... You are singling out a whole swathe of people because they are asleep and do not know the system is corrupt or choose not to believe it? Even though they do not know, they (by your admission) have paid for everything anyway! Why don't you have a go at me for taking your money?.... Come on, lets be logical and reasonable! You even said before you need a million people to rebel with you! How many strikers are there? Yet you want to blacklist them all because they have been fooled into a corrupt and fake political system? All I see are human beings that are feeling robbed! As they very well should! They were offered a deal by the government! The government surprise surprise has broken their deal! If you had a problem with the deal, then you should of seen the government! Not the dumbed down human beings that don't know what's going on!... Can you imagine a world without the government for a moment? No pension, No tax, Mo problem! right? Then you insert the government again and alas! We now see the real problem! Oh and you even say that the government wasted the pot! THE GOVERNMENT! So again, why blame the people for wanting what was offered to them? The government ripped them off and they shouldn't be pissed? Shame on you captain, shame on you.
To prove my point captain, look at joey! What a shit job he has, I can't say I have much sympathy because I believe what he does to be immoral! However you can surely see how he was duped! Surely you can see he's an open minded guy that tried to help society! His heart was pure but his mind had been deceived just like the rest of us! But he's had enough captain! This is a clear sign of the times! The worse the economy gets the more people there will be who are open to new ideas! Do you not think everyone has a common enemy here? Do you really believe we shouldn't stand in solidarity?
We are going around in circles.
I'll happily continue the moment you realise that it doesn't matter where your money comes from, or who it comes from. It is not magically cleansed before you spend it back into the governments coffers, to be used to fund wars.
As I keep saying, everything is taxed and you pay tax whether you like it or not.
Acknowledge that fact and we can carry on.
CR.
john pickworth... Do you know how defeatist you sound?
Really? I wish you'd explain how because I wasn't aware of saying we shouldn't do anything or that the battle was lost. Quite the reverse.
You say you're a realist, but you have just been fooled into thinking that you can not do anything!...
I'm fully aware of precisely what CAN be done, what MUST be done, what CANNOT realistically be achieved and even the BEST place to start.
Moreover, I've been waging my own fights with the powerful (including the world's richest man), with authority and with the Government for a very long time. I've actually gotten pretty good at it too. And I've been able to drop in and out of the system at will.
What have you done?
I think its fair to say that me and Captain R are aiming for different outcomes but remarkably we're using similar methods... and doing it methodically, carefully and patiently. I like his blog; he has a gift for highlighting injustices and refreshing turn of sapient thinking which is both practical and well considered. I'd listen to him if I were you.
Great comments here...if only the Anonymous could post a name! ANY name so we can decipher who the fuck is saying what!
P.S. I am sure that a vast majority of people that complain about the Civil Service know full well that there are hundreds of thousands of nurses, police, fireman etc etc that are PERFECTLY OK and entitled to their wage etc but WE ALL KNOW that there are hundreds of thousands of hangers on that do nothing and deserve nothing. Every time one side mentions overmanned CS the other side mention teachers, nurses blah blah blah...
John,
You are far too kind, but thanks anyway.
CR.
Span,
The anon who thinks his money is not taxed when he spends it is called Barry.
And I agree with your second post. It's the hangers-on that I would cleanse the CS of.
The front line needs to be well paid and well supported.
It's waste that gets on my nerves. Every government for decades has had a black belt in wasting our money. It has to stop.
CR.
Captain how can I acknowledge facts that are not facts? You totally miss my perspective yet want me to accept yours! I'll say it again, non of my labour goes to fund the wars, I think it is easier for you to understand that... Though I think you are still arguing for the sake of it... John I'm not saying that you or ranty have not done anything! But the article is alienating people for doing nothing wrong! Yes there are people in government that do nothing! But did they employ themselves? No! The problem is not them! It's government! Hating on sheeple that know no better is totally against the cause!... Even complaining about the government over this one issue is ridiculous considering the rest of the stuff they are up to! We should be saying to these strikers "yes! The government are thieves! Do you see now how corrupt they are? Look at this issue too!"... Not just jumping on some hate wagon! Which in fact the government would love!... As for what i've done, i've already mentioned most of it... Also captain you did not answer my other question, do you really think people shouldn't stand in solidarity due to ones political persuasion? I mean the whole system is a joke! So it doesn't matter what side of it you stand! surely? And captain i'm not saying that my situation is perfect but it's clearly better than paying for everything? The less money the government gets the better! right?
Oh and john, you said people are not going to rise up! And that basically we should spend our time picking at pieces of the legislation! All the while they are just creating new ones and making it up as they go! What you propose is what has been tried the entire history of government! Womens right, gay rights, poll tax, fuel prices yada yada yada! Look where we are today john!! It will not change a damn thing! You guys can have your individual slanging matches with the powers that be! And I dare say you will win some! But what will really change? Nothing! If it got too widespread they would simply put some more legislation in place!... I wish you guys the best of luck I do! And we're on the same team! We all want the same things! Well at least I think we do? Personally I want freedom! I'm not opposed to people forming societies and having whatever rules they want, as long I can choose to not be part of it!
Ok I've just thought of another way to pu it... You work captain, I don't know what your salary is but lets just say you earn quite a bit 200,000 let's say... You are taxed straight up 100,000 then you spend all that money on taxable items, so you pay another 20,000. So in total 120,000 goes to the tax man! from your labour!... I've never once said you do not get taxed when you buy things! But It does make a BIG difference when I earn zero! I get 50 a week from your money! and I spend all that on taxable items, 10 pounds! II take 40 pounds a week from the government! How have I funded anything!? Why can you not see that I've taken away! not given!... This does not mean I won't eventually seek out a supplier that would sell to me tax free! Eventually Iido want to... See if you really wanted to attack me back, what you should be saying is I'm immoral for taking stolen money! Which is true, but in the circumstance I would justify it as taking funding away from terrorists! I wish everyone would sign on! Can you imagine?
Barry,
You fail to accept one glaring fact: your money is also used to buy missiles and bullets.
If you cannot accept that then there really is no point continuing the conversation.
For the last time then: if you buy stuff, you pay tax. If you pay tax (directly or indirectly), you fund the government and its illegal wars.
If you can swear to me that you NEVER buy anything, I will happily answer any and all questions that you have.
I think you have deluded yourself.
Undelude, dude.
CR.
I don't even know what your angle is captain! I've already said I know vat is tax! This is like saying fish live in the sea! I KNOW!... Ok we got that now yeah? "(directly or indirectly)" This is not the issue! The fact is in the end I TAKE MONEY! When politicians or business men balance the books do they only look at one figure!? "Oh look at all the money coming in! We must be rich!" Yet if they had looked at the balance they are going into debt because of their outgoings! This is what you are doing! My word you are stubborn! lol... I love the strawman you throw out at the end there! Why use such tactics? It doesn't look good to be honest... "If you can swear to me that you NEVER buy anything, I will happily answer any and all questions that you have" So basically if I can do something that is practically impossible you will talk to me? lmao!
You are really using some bad tactics to be honest ranty.
I'm far from deluded, I see things very clearly... Now how about you answer these very simple questions, if everyone did what you do (pay tax), would we still have a government?... If everyone did what I do (claim benefits), would we still have a government then?
Barry,
I am fairly certain you aren't the enemy.
Why does it matter to you so much that "I TAKE MONEY"? It is not clean when you use it, and I don't know why you won't acknowledge that fact. It doesn't matter where it comes from, it doesn't matter how "clean" you think it is when you get it, what matters is what happens when YOU spend it.
Using your logic, (with the tax example given above) I pay for the ballistic missiles and you pay for the .556mm rounds.
Yet your conscience is clear but mine can't be?
We BOTH contribute to the wars.
Admit it.
It is not important that I "win the point", but it is important for you to know that you are as guilty as I am. As we all are.
CR.
No because you still don't get the point! You still didn't answer a thing! let's look at it again, you give the government 100 pounds, which happens to be the price of an imaginary missile ok? then the government gives me 50! They can no longer buy the missile! I give them 10 pounds back, they can still not buy the missile! because they only have 60! Now imagine if you didn't give them the 100 but instead asked for 50 like me! Now the government will be -100!!!! That is the point! I can not control whether companies will pay the tax or not, can I? I wish they didn't but that is all I can do, and of course try to persuade them not to!... Please show me where I am wrong! Show me and I'll happily admit I'm wrong!
Btw I see more hypocrisy in your latest article... It's about being jealous, you say you gave up being jealous and envying people that have more, however, you wish to moan at people when they want more! Are you not jealous of their pensions? Are you not jealous of the deal they struck? Now you roll in glee that they have been ripped off and say they shouldn't complain! lol captain!
Barry,
I wasn't answering a question, I was making an observation. Time and again you sort of hint that you know you are paying for bullets but you don't quite come out and say it.
Your illustration in the 17:18 post is close to the mark but you overlook this governments stupidity. When they "run out of cash" they either print more or borrow more. Or they take more tax off the wealthy. Or they introduce new money-making legislation.
CR.
Hypocrisy?
Did you read the fucking thing?
I do not care what the bloke next door earns. I ESPECIALLY don't care if he is asking me for nothing.
These people demanding that I pay more for their pensions are all the way wrong.
I am not jealous of their pensions. Outraged that I have to pay for them, but jealous? Hell no.
They have NOT been ripped off. The government stole the money.
The government steals my money every day.
And you don't think I have a right to complain about that?
I really am starting to wonder if you are a lefty troll.
CR.
"I wasn't answering a question" Oh I know that ranty! You rarely do! Ok look lets have a compromise, I'll admit I pay tax (I already have but you know...) if you will admit that I leave the government with less money!?... I haven't overlooked anything, it is another fish live in the sea moment! We know the government just prints money but how long could that continue if everyone were claiming benefit rather than paying tax!? I don't know why I bother to ask the questions you will not answer, oh of course you will answer if I fly around the moon and back!
I rarely answer questions?
Have you only just started reading this blog? I have answered thousands of questions since I started writing it.
How long could the government continue to print and borrow money?
They've been at it since at least 1694 so why should they stop now?
And if you could point out just one example where 100% (voluntary) unemployment subsequently crippled a country I would be pleased to hear about it.
CR.
"Did you read the fucking thing?" Yes "These people demanding that I pay more for their pensions are all the way wrong." I've never heard them say they want YOU or anyone to pay more tax so they can have their pensions! Please show me where they have said that!
"I am not jealous of their pensions. Outraged that I have to pay for them, but jealous? Hell no." You don't have to pay for them, stop paying tax! But anyway this is to do with a deal made by the government! Your issue is with the government not the people that took the deal!
"They have NOT been ripped off. The government stole the money." Probably thee most idiotic thing I've ever read! Apparently being stolen from isn't getting ripped off! Seriously what?
"The government steals my money every day." They do not pay the same tax then? They are stolen from everyday too, on top of the pension theft! You should have something in common!
"And you don't think I have a right to complain about that?" Where have I said you can not complain about being stolen from!? I think it's daft because you could just stop paying tax! Unless you work for a company and then you would change to your job!
"I really am starting to wonder if you are a lefty troll." What the hell is a lefty? Is that some political term? I'm against the whole government! I couldn't give a shit about left or right, to me you're all just begging the government to save you! By the way I've never voted in my life! Even before my "awakening".
"Have you only just started reading this blog?" No I've been reading for a while. Should I rephrase it, You rarely answer MY questions!
"They've been at it since at least 1694 so why should they stop now?" People have been asleep for a long time, but have people tried refusing to pay tax on mass!? Just because something has continued for a long time does not mean it can not be stopped!
"And if you could point out just one example where 100% (voluntary) unemployment subsequently crippled a country I would be pleased to hear about it." Again with the strawman! Has it ever been tried? If it has was it from a moral standpoint?
Actually I can think of a similar senario, how about ghandi!? He beat the british invasion with a high moral, non conformist, non violent philosophy, a bit like the one I'm talking about I suppose! Was it easy? No! Did they get beaten and killed? Yes! Did they win? YES!
Why is always Economics 101 with you?
Paragraph by paragraph, here are my responses.
The government has no money. Not a single penny. When public sector workers demand more from the government they are demanding it from those who do have money. The taxpayers. Please tell me you already knew this.
I am not ready to stop paying tax. When I do stop paying tax I will stop complaining. My issue is with those who feel "entitled" to more of my money. That would include the government and any people who work for them.
I could have worded that better. I was ripped off. The government took my money, pumped it into a pension fund then stole that fund from the people it was designed to pay a pension to. Yet you are happy for me to be robbed again.
See above regarding paying tax.
Again, see above regarding paying tax. Change my job to what? I am happy in my job.
We are all begging the government to save us? I take roughly fuck all from the government. Yet you happily take money from them. Money they don't have to give unless they take from me (and others like me) by force. So YOU are part of the problem after all. If there were no people like you taking the money, taxpayers wouldn't have to chip in quite so much in the first place.
Maybe you should rephrase your questions then. And how could I possibly know if I was ignoring your questions specifically if you have been posting as Anon? There are hundreds of Anons that post here.
I agree. Just because they have been doing it since 1694 does not mean they can be allowed to carry on forever. As it happens, I think we are nearing the end game now.
That "everyone claiming benefits" thing was YOUR grand plan. Not mine. You have the audacity to complain about a strawman YOU injected into the conversation? Unbelievable.
The Ghandi example is a good one. Non-violent, mass civil disobedience. I have been trying to fire up my readers about peaceful revolution for three years or so.
Whatever else I get wrong, at least I am trying. I am saying no, and I am hanging on to my money wherever I can.
If what I am doing, or the pace at which I am doing it doesn't suit you, that is not my problem. It is yours.
CR.
"The government has no money. Not a single penny. When public sector workers demand more from the government they are demanding it from those who do have money. The taxpayers. Please tell me you already knew this." Wrong! They are asking for what was promised to them! Nothing more, nothing less! hey are also demanding that they do not have to pay more for less than what was promised to them! It was stolen as you admit from the government! So guess what? Those people are pissed at the government and are striking! This is good! You sound like you have a problem with the government too, soooo? get together?
"I am not ready to stop paying tax. When I do stop paying tax I will stop complaining. My issue is with those who feel "entitled" to more of my money. That would include the government and any people who work for them." They feel entitled to what is owing to them! This was set out in the deal! You are saying then that because you are not quite brave enough to truly stand up, you will have a go at people who are asleep to the real issues? You say drop the jealousy you will feel better, I say drop the hatred of normal people, you will feel better!
"The government took my money, pumped it into a pension fund then stole that fund from the people it was designed to pay a pension to. Yet you are happy for me to be robbed again. All these decisions were made by the government! The employees have also paid the same tax you have right? They have also paid into the pension directly! Am I saying you shouldn't be pissed? Hell no! Of course you should! BUT AT THE BLOODY GOVERNMENT! Not at the sheeples! Have some compassion! You were asleep too, were you not?
"We are all begging the government to save us? I take roughly fuck all from the government. Yet you happily take money from them. Money they don't have to give unless they take from me (and others like me) by force. So YOU are part of the problem after all. If there were no people like you taking the money, taxpayers wouldn't have to chip in quite so much in the first place." I laughed at this one! Before you told me I'd already paid for everything! And that I could take what I needed! make your mind up! I'm am quite happy to take money off the government the whole time they are dropping bombs on people! You think if no one claimed benefit the kind and caring government would not want to take your money? pfft! I really wonder if you truly are libertarian.
"Maybe you should rephrase your questions then. And how could I possibly know if I was ignoring your questions specifically if you have been posting as Anon? There are hundreds of Anons that post here." Oh please! This is a lame excuse! You knew full well that I was talking to you because you replied to me! Only the replies have lacked answers! I do apologise for missing out the word MY.
"I agree. Just because they have been doing it since 1694 does not mean they can be allowed to carry on forever. As it happens, I think we are nearing the end game now." I actually think there will be another great depression, used of course to usher in a new world currency. But hey it's neither here nor there to me as I plan to not be any part of there system eventually.
"That "everyone claiming benefits" thing was YOUR grand plan. Not mine. You have the audacity to complain about a strawman YOU injected into the conversation? Unbelievable." Erm, the topic was not the strawman but the question! I don't see your point?
"The Ghandi example is a good one. Non-violent, mass civil disobedience. I have been trying to fire up my readers about peaceful revolution for three years or so." That is great and I applaud you for it! But why alienate millions of people because you deem them to have wronged you in some way, even though it was the government! You have all been robbed and lied to by varying degrees! Do we really need to argue who has been robbed the most? Should we not seek to help each other out? To come together?
"If what I am doing, or the pace at which I am doing it doesn't suit you, that is not my problem. It is yours." It's not really what you're doing or even really the pace you are doing it at! But to make an article complaining about other people who have by your admission been robbed! Just seemed completely wrong! We all need to unite under a common cause! We need to put aside petty political differences and get back down to basics, which I believe are morals!
So, when we boil it all down, you just want me to support the government (650 muggers) and the public sector workers (his 5 million sidekicks) by saying "YES! Have even more of my money!"
No.
CR.
Barry
I think, with respect, your logic is flawed - and you recognise it too when you talk of the Government printing money.
For a start, printing money doesn't 'create' money in the way you might imagine. Its principally used to manipulate near-zero interest rates. The extra liquidity comes at the price of a depressed currency, imported inflation and future higher interest rates. You're already seeing the first two effects in the price you pay for overseas travel, food and fuel.
But moving on... lets look at your -£100 example? I don't wish to burst your bubble but you will never exhaust the Government's coffers in the manner you propose.
The Government of the day will always raise the funds to meet its current expenditure for benefits and bombs. Be that via increased taxation, switching from taxes on earnings to taxes on spending, increased borrowing or more taxes upon wealth/savings/property.
How can I be sure? Look at Gordon Brown's massively increased spending. All those shiny new schools and hospitals were clearly not affordable from the then current revenues... so GB went wild with PFI and has in effect spent taxes not yet collected. Sadly, your child will be one of those taxpayers who will still be funding these buildings when he/she is 40 year old. Then there are the myriad green taxes being spent on anything but. The novel taxes on share dealing, aeroplane seats, on insurance, yeah insurance for crying out loud like its a luxury to be insured now! But that still wasn't enough... GB borrowed and borrowed. And I'll tell you now, every single last penny of that borrowing, plus interest, will be paid back by the likes of me and you. Yeah, you Barry. Fair enough, in your case you might not have it taken from your wages but...
They'll take it from taxes on your everyday spending
They'll take it by paying less generous benefits in future years
They'll take it from your eroded standard of living (which is already under way)
They'll take by increasing inflation
They'll take it from your children... and from your grandchildren.
In a way Barry, you're just adding to the problem... you're not reducing the Government's squandering of our wealth, you are contributing to it. IMHO.
Just to be clear... I wrote the above comments two hours before posting them. I haven't copied CR's replies but seem to have come to the same conclusion.
Thank you John.
You explained it much more succinctly than I ever could.
CR.
Eh? How the fuck can you come to that conclusion captain after the whole debate we have had is about the fact you shouldn't be paying any tax! Now you think I'm saying you should? Captain, are you feeling alright?
"For a start, printing money doesn't 'create' money in the way you might imagine. Its principally used to manipulate near-zero interest rates. The extra liquidity comes at the price of a depressed currency, imported inflation and future higher interest rates. You're already seeing the first two effects in the price you pay for overseas travel, food and fuel." So you are going to school me on the whole fiat ponzi scheme? manipulating the money is a way of exerting control! It also devalues your labour! Seriously, you don't have to tell me the establishment jibber jabber regarding their corrupt immoral scheme!
"But moving on... lets look at your -£100 example? I don't wish to burst your bubble but you will never exhaust the Government's coffers in the manner you propose." Listen, you are focusing too much on some tiny analogy I made! This is not what I stand for! It was merely a way to explain my point, which you clearly missed! It was merely to prove I do not fund the wars as I take money from government...
"The Government of the day will always raise the funds to meet its current expenditure for benefits and bombs. Be that via increased taxation, switching from taxes on earnings to taxes on spending, increased borrowing or more taxes upon wealth/savings/property." You are talking about now! In a time where everyone is asleep or afraid! If a majority just said no more! Didn't pay a penny! The system would fall! It could print money for so long, but who would lend to them if they were getting no support! Who would take their money if it was just printed!
*sigh*
Your own words Barry.
You want me to stand together with the public sector workers and demand their right to more money.
The only way they can get more money is if we pay more tax.
I cannot comprehend why you cannot grasp this fundamental point.
That "pot" we imagined to be in existence is no longer there. The govt wasted it all. The theory that we paid for everything within a few months of being born was true once. It isn't any more.
CR.
"How can I be sure? Look at Gordon Brown's massively increased spending. All those shiny new schools and hospitals were clearly not affordable from the then current revenues... so GB went wild with PFI and has in effect spent taxes not yet collected. Sadly, your child will be one of those taxpayers who will still be funding these buildings when he/she is 40 year old. Then there are the myriad green taxes being spent on anything but. The novel taxes on share dealing, aeroplane seats, on insurance, yeah insurance for crying out loud like its a luxury to be insured now! But that still wasn't enough... GB borrowed and borrowed. And I'll tell you now, every single last penny of that borrowing, plus interest, will be paid back by the likes of me and you. Yeah, you Barry. Fair enough, in your case you might not have it taken from your wages but..." You're telling me about the corruption in the system? This is all designed and I know about it already! I want rid of the whole stinking lot! You evidently still want to operate their game! I don't even want money at all! I'd rather have the barter system! Do not waste your breath with political talk, gordon did this, blair did that! yada yada! They're all corrupt! I want them out of my life! That is all.
"They'll take it from taxes on your everyday spending" Eventually, when i'm earning, maybe... But by then I hope to have secure a tax free purchasing option, on top of the very simple life I want to lead, growing my own, not driving, not travelling abroad etc etc...
"They'll take it by paying less generous benefits in future years" I don't want their money in the very near future, I just needed some time before I could set something up!
"They'll take it from your eroded standard of living (which is already under way)" I'm happy with the simple life bringing up and educating my children. I say bring it on! I'm prepared!
"They'll take it from your children... and from your grandchildren." Not if I educate my kids right!
"In a way Barry, you're just adding to the problem... you're not reducing the Government's squandering of our wealth, you are contributing to it. IMHO." The problem is government, I'm taking from them! I don't care what the government says it's going to do! I don't care about the shit they talk or the lies they tell! I JUST WANT OUT! And I will! Do you know what I think? I think you and the captain are still somewhat stuck in the system! You still want to talk about the individual things it does wrong and talking about how you can fix it... When in reality you should step back and see it as the lying, manipulative, immoral beast it is! It's like complaining that hitlers hair looked a bit funny, or that his facial hair was unusual, rather than just saying he's an evil tyrant!
"You want me to stand together with the public sector workers and demand their right to more money." Erm so please point out the quote where I said that!? Captain please don't tell lies! I said you shouldn't attack them! I said you have a common enemy! I said you should use this as a way to show them the system is corrupt! and to possibly turn them on to other issues, such as the wars etc. I dont want anyone to pay tax! So obviously no one would get a fucking pension! I thought this would be obvious? The whole time I have said they have a legitimate reason to complain! They have been ripped off or as you said robbed! As have you! As has everyone else! So I'm saying to join together! Not join together in being part of the fucking system I want rid of! Is that more clear now?
"The only way they can get more money is if we pay more tax.
I cannot comprehend why you cannot grasp this fundamental point." Nope how about we withdraw from all the fucking wars blah blah, see this just leads into more political jibber jabber! I'm not interested in the way they run their immoral corrupt system! I want rid of it! I can't believe you can't see my standpoint after everything I've said!
"That "pot" we imagined to be in existence is no longer there. The govt wasted it all. The theory that we paid for everything within a few months of being born was true once. It isn't any more." You brought up the pot! I know about it anyway and it is not gone! They are still making money off you and they are still borrowing money in your name! Or the fact that you are a tax payer etc... They are just giving this money to the bankers! And to foreign countries and to the army! You think there are not enough working people to make a nice life in this country? You think there is not enough money to fund solar or wind projects to give everybody free electricity? Of course there is! You are just being fucking robbed! So why give the money?
Look I do not have all the answers for what we should do after the government is gone! All I know is first and foremost I just want it gone!... I don't mind if you and john want to start up your own government with your own rules and your own fiat ponzi scheme! Just so long as I do not need to be part of it! Any system is welcome so long as it's voluntary! Then we can pick and choose which system you want to be part of! Or be part of no system at all... Do you get what I'm saying? Is what I'm saying really that alien to you?
Barry, I think I understand you now. You're clearly passionate about what you believe and I can only respect that.
Any system is welcome so long as it's voluntary! Then we can pick and choose which system you want to be part of! Or be part of no system at all...
Sadly, what you describe as systems sounds very much like de facto 'tribes'. I'm not sure its possible for the huge populations we have now to live harmoniously in close proximity. How long would it be before one tribe/system decided they didn't like the neighbouring one? How long would it be before the strongest in a territory told you that "No. Its not okay for you to do your own thing"?
If I've mistakenly injected the echoes of the medieval era I'd be interested to hear how you envision such a future?
John, glad I made things clearer! phew! Like I've said, I do not have all the answers for what to do next! However, I do know we now know much more than we did during the medieval age, though I would argue that kind of thing goes on today only it's with drug gangs and gangs in general over post codes!... But I would say the average guy doesn't want to kill anyone! The ones that do would be dealt with in line with common law... Anyway these details can be worked out along the way! They can be worked on by everyone!... All I know is that killing thousands of people around the world is not the way to go! Torturing people is unacceptable! I know the police are corrupt, the government is corrupt, the media are corrupt! You just have to see the phone hacking case to know that! But there are many many more examples right the way through the political history! It needs to end! The people need to start taking care of their own affairs!
Oh and your theory of how long till we all kill each other can be expanded into countries, Oh I don't know how long we can stay civil with france! It's so close, we're bound to enter war sooner or later! Or how about wales? Or scotland! Whenever there has been any shit it's because the government got involved... I think the feelings I express are being felt all over the world! People have had enough of the bullshit and political wrangling! It's time for real change! Even if you disagree with me you can have what you have now if you want it! I have no problem with you paying for the government to kill people abroad if that's what you want! I just want to be allowed the same respect back, and be allowed to not be part of it! I'm sure you will not have a problem with that? I fail to see how anyone could!
Btw I'm so glad that finally we came to the real conversation! What could we do instead of the government!? Do we need the government? Could we live without them? These are all great questions! Far superior to who stuffed the fake corrupt economy... It actually takes a lot out of me physically to talk about that kind of crap! I'm past the illusion, I've accepted the inevitable, I'm just looking to move forwards now.
John google "Casualties of the Iraq War"... Tell me again that we are civilised! It's not thousands of people we kill, It's millions! I would say even if we had some tribal war, it wouldn't result in millions dead!... You want the government to save you, it will not! I'm sorry the whole thing is beyond immoral!
I'm afraid to admit I am a war monger of sorts but not for naked conquest or gain.
I have no moral problem with using measured force where necessary - Libya and Bosnia for example (but not Kosovo). The same with past military posturing in the geopolitical sphere (defeating communism). I can justify this because they are broadly self-defensive.
Similarly, the first Gulf War was a reaction to a madman who clearly had designs on destabilising the middle east. It would have been short-sighted and cowardly for us to have stood aside. Where I differ from our Government and the majority is that we shouldn't have stopped once we had them on the run. War is a serious business and you should not wage it lightly. To suddenly quit half way up the road to Bagdad was beyond comprehension. I said at the time that it would come back and bite us in the ass and boy did it do so. What followed was 13 years of pointless sanctions, no fly zones and politically motivated missile strikes. And guess what? We eventually had to go in and resolve the problem anyway. It was moot whether Sadam had WMDs or not... we shouldn't have been in that situation second time around. Afghanistan too. A war fought on the back of the horrors of 9/11. It was right that we pursued Bin Laden and his cohorts but we shouldn't have invaded. As much as I've looked, I just don't see the great up-side for us (or anyone) in this particular adventure.
I relate all this because I wanted you to know where I stand. And I'm sure I'll be hated for it.
The big picture is that we were, not so long ago, a world power - albeit one now in decline. But you cannot simply switch off overnight our responsibilities for those around the world that depended on us. Many newly independent and developing countries have grown and prospered under implied if not explicit guarantees of security afford by the British. It's been a tough (and expensive) 60-70 years but I'm immensely proud of our contribution. Its not always been perfect but the dangers were there when others sensed our wavering (the Falklands to name one more recent example).
I believe though we're entering a new era where our military reach doesn't need to be so comprehensive. Clearly we cannot threaten the Americas or the Far East nor do we have significant interests there to protect. There are already quite obvious signs in the make-up, men and machines that demonstrate our military have become a regional power rather than a global one. I think that's a sensible position to take.
Look, war is an awful, bloody and disgusting thing but I think history will judge us well. The British have been sometimes glorious but rarely monstrous. There will always be war as long as humans walk the earth and we will always need a military... the big question is what we ask it to do in our name?
--
Apologies for the tangent but I felt I needed to say all that.
Didn't I say you were establishment? lol... Wow, john, where do I start? Boy oh boy!... I hate to break this to you but you have been lied to every step of the way! You are believing a distorted lie! The truth is TPTB fund both sides of every major war! Most if not all of the so called terrorists are government assets! Let me dig out a few articles for you, There is one where the leader of the rebels in libya admits he is al quaeda and that he's brought in troops that have fought the great war in afghanistan! So even if you believe the politicians and the media, they are telling you that they work with al quaeda! We have for years positioned our selves along side america and proceeded to police the world! When in reality we have no fucking right! And on top of that it's not even about policing! It's about POWER and MONEY!... There are evil dictators all over the world, yet we invade the ones that have oil, and the ones that will not do as they're told!
There are so many occasions where the police and the government and the media have LIED! So so many! It's not even funny! Yet you choose to believe them? To not even be sceptical about them? Did you know our government admitted to testing on the citizens with biological weapons? They are not there to protect you!
Tell me, what right do we have to tell another country they can not have a nuclear weapon! Baring in mind that we have them! What logical reason do we have? Because we once had an empire? Ie we went round killing everyone! That is the reason? If anything we should not have any weapons!... Where is your reason and common sense?
You are proud that we invade countries and kill innocent women and children? There is an article about how 2 sas guys were caught in afghanistan driving around wearing fake beards, shooting at people randomly! They were broken out of prison by force! You are proud that we torture people? Have you seen the wikileaks documentary wiki rebels?
All the armies, governments, media etc are all corrupt to the hilt! If I repeatedly lied to you would you believe a thing I said?
Look john I understand where you are in your head, but you have been fooled! It's nothing to be ashamed of because these people have had penty of time to practice! Check out the bilderburg group! Check out bohemian grove!
"Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links" here's one article.
"Libya: Bodies Raise Specter Of Mass Killings In Tripoli" Oh and lets take a look at how the new nice friendly al qaeda operate!
"Millions were in germ war tests" Oh one about how the government cares about you!
"Universal Jurisdiction change becomes law" Oh that's a nice one about how any war criminal can now come here unhindered! We have more rights taken away!
"'Racists' aged THREE: Toddlers among thousands of children accused of bigotry after name calling." The government forces the schools to spy on your kids and report them, nice!
I mean I can go on and on and on! This is out there for everybody to see!
"The gentlemen's club for the rich and famous that worships a 1980s Page 3 girl" Here is a little about our friends across the pond, but don't think our puppets don't attend!
Now if you really want to get to the nitty gritty check out the speech bill gates gave regarding co2! He basically said we produce too much co2, If we carry on we'll all die! (hold up plants breath co2 right?). H goes on to say that the co2 level needs to get down to zero! Really then how will the plants live? Anyway he said to do this the POPULATION will have to get to near zero! He said we can reduce the population via vaccine! Are you starting to get the picture yet? Please just look into it! Why all the secret societies? Why are politicians meeting with big business in secret? People had better start waking up to the real threat!
Barry,
I'm fully aware of what the Bohemian Grove Club and Bilderburg Groups are. Frankly, I have no fear or them and neither should you. There are many things happening around you everyday that are closed, private or secret... just because you're not privy to these events it doesn't necessarily follow that what they do is wrong.
You say we have no right to police the world? Who says? Seriously, where is it written? We're actually on the UN Security Council with a specific brief to do precisely that (with safeguards).
I told you above, a great many nations depended (literally for their survival) on us acting in this role... often times when we (as a nation) perhaps didn't even want to. But okay, that era is closing. We couldn't strut the world now even if we wanted to but you can be sure as hell others will... one day soon it might be Iran, America or China sticking their oar in.
And yes we do have a right to tell others they shouldn't develop nuclear weapons. But don't be so naive to believe that it is just big bad Britain or evil America saying it. There are whole reams of international accords, agreed by the majority of nations that set out precisely the conditions and prohibitions concerning the development of weapons of mass destruction.
And whether so and so was once a friend of bin Laden or some village got bombed (awful as that is) they are minor details in the grand scheme of things... and yeah, I know how that sounds but its real, deal with it.
Why would anyone listen to Bill Gates speaking about CO2, much less repeat it? He knows about as much on the subject as Al Gore... and that's considerably less than nothing!
As for the vaccines comment, I believe he was misquoted to be fair.
"I'm fully aware of what the Bohemian Grove Club and Bilderburg Groups are. Frankly, I have no fear or them and neither should you. There are many things happening around you everyday that are closed, private or secret... just because you're not privy to these events it doesn't necessarily follow that what they do is wrong"... Well sir you are very mistaken! Do you not at least see a conflict of interests when the government (public servants) are having secret meetings? If nothing was going on why the hell wouldn't it be out in the open? Public servants shouldn't be colluding with the private sector anyway ! When that happens you get the phone hacking scandal! My god man open your eyes!
Now suddenly the UN are the sole authority over earth? WTF are you talking about? I'm talking reason and common sense and you are coming back at me with establishment jibberish? How many people have the UN been party to killing? It's like saying "see, I'm the real authority! I am the top bully because look at all the other bullies I have! The bullies say I can bully who I want! fairy tale stuff mate.
"I told you above, a great many nations depended (literally for their survival) on us acting in this role... often times when we (as a nation) perhaps didn't even want to. But okay, that era is closing. We couldn't strut the world now even if we wanted to but you can be sure as hell others will... one day soon it might be Iran, America or China sticking their oar in."... You still don't get it do you? It's all a psy-op! They spread propaganda to make you think what you think! I don't doubt people will want to bully, that does not mean we should bully!
"And yes we do have a right to tell others they shouldn't develop nuclear weapons. But don't be so naive to believe that it is just big bad Britain or evil America saying it. There are whole reams of international accords, agreed by the majority of nations that set out precisely the conditions and prohibitions concerning the development of weapons of mass destruction."... Yes countries bought and paid for by the agenda! Anyone that doesn't agree gets fucking invaded! You say we have the right to tell other countries what to do without a single piece of reasoning or common sense! You merely say yes we do! And we have other bullies backing us up1 So ner! Pathetic!
"And whether so and so was once a friend of bin Laden or some village got bombed (awful as that is) they are minor details in the grand scheme of things... and yeah, I know how that sounds but its real, deal with it."... I've no idea what you are talking about to be honest.
So you came back at me with nothing but propaganda parroting! Really you need to look at what we are doing! You think a country that spreads so called democracy via bombs and torture will be looked on kindly? Is it any wonder if we get so called terrorist attacks? Bin laden was not even on the fbi list for being responsible for 9/11! Why? because there was no proof! Just some fake video! Hey bub, I've seen the white house destroyed by aliens! Geee it must be true, I done seen it on the TV!
Look if the government has lied and been found to be corrupt, shouldn't you question everything past and present?
It seems you will not!
I bet you actually think you live in a democracy! My friend being "allowed" to vote in your tyrant every 4 years does not a democracy make!... We should have referendums on every single major issue!! There would be accountability if someone lied!! There would be more than 2 major parties!... There is no democracy! It's all a giant myth to keep you from realising you are indeed in a dictatorship,, only the face changes every now and then!... I can show you many many incidents that prove what I'm saying, but you won't listen to reason or common sense or even evidence, will you!? Captain ranty said once that I seem unlearned, I research all day, everyday! I know what I'm talking about!
You want to live with blind faith and complete trust in people that have been proven to lie to you, infect you and steal money from you! How is that reasonable? How is that the action of a grown man?
"Why would anyone listen to Bill Gates speaking about CO2, much less repeat it? He knows about as much on the subject as Al Gore... and that's considerably less than nothing!"... Sorry I missed this comment, yes I agree with you, however he attends bilderburg meetings! He's talking about eugenics while colluding with the government in secret! Are these the friends public servants should be keeping?... As for misquoting? I saw the speech! Would you like to see it?
Also would you like to see one of the founders of the vaccine talking about them? He mentions that the early vaccines carried lots of different viruses and diseases, most notably leukimia! Oh but I guess the inventor of the vaccine doesn't know anything about them! He also said that their studies showed worrying signs these vaccines could have long term effects! The reporter said "what long term effects"? "CANCER"... The reporter laughed his head off!... So do the claims of bill gates seem so ridiculous now!?...
"... When that happens you get the phone hacking scandal!"
The hacking scandal became a scandal largely because the non-Murdock media saw the opportunity to put the boot in. Its so overblown as to be comical. Even the actual hacking, in most cases, was little more than a reporter dialling into other people's answer-machines using the manufacturer's default access codes.
I really can't be arsed about this sideshow. I'll be happy when they stop wasting newsprint on it.
"Look if the government has lied and been found to be corrupt, shouldn't you question everything past and present?"
Sage advice.
And yes I am deeply suspicious of the things they do... but that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is a lie or EVERYTHING is corrupt!
But listening to the half-wits around the internet you're soon left with the impression that there is some massive, all encompassing conspiracy by some shadow government/rich fella club to enslave the rest of humanity.
I've yet to see one solitary single shred of proof.
I've had some point to video evidence of nefarious 9/11 plots... a video that has been re-edited several times as each assertion was demolished. A video created by a 20 y/o student with a laptop and a collection of news video clips. A video maker who publicly distances himself from his movie now. And yet, tens of thousands were taken in and still believe to this day that black is white and white is black.
The truth is my friend that lies go both ways.
"Bill Gates: He's talking about eugenics while colluding with the government in secret!"
So what!
As rich as he is, as influential as he is.... the Government needs neither his money or nor insights.
Seriously, the crime here is that ministers and senior civil servants are pissing up our money attending these gatherings to smooze with celebs rather than doing the job we pay them to do. I don't give a damn what they actually talk about while sipping fine wines.
"The hacking scandal became a scandal largely because the non-Murdock media saw the opportunity to put the boot in. Its so overblown as to be comical. Even the actual hacking, in most cases, was little more than a reporter dialling into other people's answer-machines using the manufacturer's default access codes.".. They had bags of complaints regarding phone hacking! Yet they tried to say they didn't know it was a problem! LIES
The supposed ring leader was working for the chief of police while the cheif and his underling were going to newspapers trying to suppress the story! INTIMIDATION AND OBVIOUS CORRUPTION!
The chief of police and his underling both resign! Oh yeah, it sure sounds like nothing!
The whistleblower is found dead after reporting to friends people were out to get him!... Nope nothing to see here move along! Totally comical so far.
Oh the hacking ring leader also worked for CAMARON! Nope it's all above board, the government who spies on my children love me!
!2 people so far arrested, ha ha ha, so funny... Countless people have been called in to answer questions by mp's, poppycock, it's totally nothing! Why is it even in the news!? We need more reporting on who's wearing the latest dress and how my favourite football team is getting on! Those are the real issues! what? what?
Murdochs son was shown an email regarding it all but denies it!... Oh yes he is above reproach! He would never tell a LIE!
You say listening in on peoples private phone calls is nothing? How about deleting the messages on your deceased childs phone? You must be sick my friend, if you think this is acceptable behaviour! but wait there is more!
It wasn't just some answer messages either! They were paying off the fucking police to use their equipment! Oh but I suppose that's all normal behaviour in the war mungering world you live in!
Oh yes and now they want to pressure the newspaper that broke the story to release it's sources! Even taking the case to court to get them to do it by force!... Hmmm kay, well see it's not nice to tell on big brother see! If you do, we'll hunt you down like a dog see! We're not coming to find you to give you a medal for uncovering the corruption, we're coming to get you for telling on us! How dare you tell the truth boy!
Wow, you are totally in a dream land! Really what can I say to such clear ignorance?
I didn't say it (the phone hacking) was nothing. I'm just sick of it being blown out of all proportion.
Where crimes have been committed then punish the guilty.
As for the deleted messages? You've really got to question that person's judgement but at the end of the day does it really impact anyone? Seriously? That's not to say it right but the police were playing silly buggers with the phone at the same time too. Reading all the faux-horror you'd believe the actually dug up the corpse!
"And yes I am deeply suspicious of the things they do... but that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is a lie or EVERYTHING is corrupt!".... So far you believe everything is great and killing people is great and bullying people is find if we do it! Believe me there are so many blatantly corrupt goings on for a reason! It's to get the response you just gave! They couldn't get away with that? Not everything is a conspiracy you know! I don't care about conspiracies, I just look at the facts! To deny what is going on before your very eyes is incredible!
"But listening to the half-wits around the internet you're soon left with the impression that there is some massive, all encompassing conspiracy by some shadow government/rich fella club to enslave the rest of humanity."... You mean the half wits that ask fucking questions? The half wits that can piece together the dribs and drabs of info we get, in order to form a bigger picture?... If I find someone to lie, I would stop listening to them! So far it checks out! So me one of their lies! Just show me! how me the corruption! I cn show you! And I am showing you! You're coming back with zero! Just mainstream propaganda talk! Seriously!
"I've yet to see one solitary single shred of proof."... I've given you some already! You just don't want to acknowledge it.
"I've had some point to video evidence of nefarious 9/11 plots... a video that has been re-edited several times as each assertion was demolished. A video created by a 20 y/o student with a laptop and a collection of news video clips. A video maker who publicly distances himself from his movie now. And yet, tens of thousands were taken in and still believe to this day that black is white and white is black."... There is plenty of stuff to question over 9/11 and 7/7... One of them is, Can you tell me the probability of america running exercises regarding a terrorist attack involving planes flown into building, while on the same day it actually happens?
A freak accident you could say? Hmmm ok well why don't we times it by 2, how about on the day of 7/7, exercises were also being carried out regarding a terrorist threat involving the same exact senario!!! What are the fucking chances!? The signs are all there for you to see!
"The truth is my friend that lies go both ways."... Have I said no one else in the world lies?....
Ok recently there has been a bbc hit piece regarding 9/11, In it they took a load of so called truthers and tried to change their minds! (not seek the truth you notice!)... So they took them to a series of "experts"! One of them explained how the towers disintergrated into duxt by using LEGO! He explained nothing and proved nothing!
Then they met another "expert" This time to prove thermite can not burn steel, wait hold up, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN FUCKING PROVEN! Check out a guy on youtube and see for yourself! thermite melting steel is what you should look for! I'n the propaganda, I mean "documentary" the "expert" dumped some low grade thermite on a chunk of steel and said, "der, now ya see, no thermite can burn steel!" (i was rolling around at his scientific evaluation!)
They proved it was easy to fly a jumbo jet by flying a small propeller aircraft! Yup that's that sewn up then, case closed!
You got to be a fucking moron to believe any of that bullshit! I mean I got to laugh I really do!
I don't know what happened on these days, but I know one thing for sure! It's NOT what the governments are telling us!
"I didn't say it (the phone hacking) was nothing. I'm just sick of it being blown out of all proportion."... " The hacking scandal became a scandal largely because the non-Murdock media saw the opportunity to put the boot in. Its so overblown as to be comical. Even the actual hacking, in most cases, was little more than a reporter dialling into other people's answer-machines using the manufacturer's default access codes."..,
Hmmmm sure sounds like you thought it was nothing to me! you Even called it "comical"! Even with the amount of evidence of corruption i've given you (if you don't believe me I can give you links to every article!), even with the amount of arrests and people being probed, you still fall back on saying it was "blown out of proportion"! What the hell are you on? You don't want to read about the lies and corruption involved with your government? Oh geee I'm sorry, I'll lobby the papers to only tell real stories about your fave sports star!
"As for the deleted messages? You've really got to question that person's judgement but at the end of the day does it really impact anyone? Seriously? That's not to say it right but the police were playing silly buggers with the phone at the same time too. Reading all the faux-horror you'd believe the actually dug up the corpse!"...
Wow, just wow! Let me try to make this clear, when they deleted the messages family members were able to leave more messages! Making them think their child was still ALIVE! Does it fucking effect anyone? Why don't you go ask then what they thought! Why don't you tell them it's nothing, you sir are sorry excuse for a human being! Wow I mean really? This is what society has led to? hacking dead peoples phones is now acceptable and paying off the police to use equipment is spot on! And the chief of police being used to try and silence stories about his friend and colleague! What the hell is wrong with you?
Oh I've just seen "Dowler family set for £2m hacking payout"!
Yep totally nothing! Hey guess what, you'll have fun paying that off won't you! And it''s just the beginning!
It's barry i'm on my phone so i'll just post as anonymous... I'd like you to look at this one! "met police tried to cover up hacking" Read the article very carefully! Listen to what the guy has to say! All this is much bigger than phone hacking! It's an insight into the evil of the state! I just urge everyone to look for themselves! It certainly isn't hard to find!
I managed to post it as me, keep everyone happy! Btw I hope you're ok captain, you seemed to vanish. captain, you seemed to vanish.
First a correction: I thought the story about the messages concerned the Soham murders.
Look Barry, this is pointless. I have neither the time nor the inclination to de-construct your points line by line. Never mind that we've gone way way off topic.
You clearly have a few theories, which is okay, but worryingly you don't propose any practical solutions? Its my opinion you won't find any because a truly 'Government free' anarchist-lite future is simply untenable. It's not going to happen and on that front the battle is lost.
My libertarian alternative achievable; which is to live with a Government... or more properly, have the Government live with us. Evidently the balance between people and State needs correction. I honestly believe that we can live a much smaller State; one that takes care of the big stuff leaving us free to manage our own affairs, either individually or as local cooperatives.
Barry, I'm sure you'll disagree with all of that but you won't change my mind and I fear I cannot change yours.
First a correction: I thought the story about the messages concerned the Soham murders."... First a correction of your incorrect correction! Please do some research! The info is out there! Everything I say is true!
"NYT: Metropolitan Police Ignored Phone Hacking Evidence While Reassuring Public" There's the proof bubba! But of course you people do not believe in proof, you would rather resort to blind faith!
"Look Barry, this is pointless. I have neither the time nor the inclination to de-construct your points line by line. Never mind that we've gone way way off topic."... Absolute rubbish, you got to do better than that! You will not de-construct what I say because you can not! I challenge anyone that thinks they can to have a go! Btw it was you sir that took us off topic! But now that I show you your beloved government is actually corrupt to the hilt and hates you! You suddenly don't want to go there! Ha Ha, pathetic! Grow up!
"You clearly have a few theories, which is okay, but worryingly you don't propose any practical solutions? Its my opinion you won't find any because a truly 'Government free' anarchist-lite future is simply untenable. It's not going to happen and on that front the battle is lost."... You say I have some theories? What you mean the facts that I have laid out for you? I only deal in FACT! You can try to tar me with the establishment conspiracy theorist brush but it won't work! You also say I offer no solutions yet go on to post my solutions! How retarded is that? Please talk sense! You dismiss the solutions I lay out as undoable without even entertaining the thought or debating it! Just like captain ranty you come with nothing!
"My libertarian alternative achievable; which is to live with a Government... or more properly, have the Government live with us. Evidently the balance between people and State needs correction. I honestly believe that we can live a much smaller State; one that takes care of the big stuff leaving us free to manage our own affairs, either individually or as local cooperatives."... Firstly how dare you use the term libertarian! You deal in murder, torture and the removal of ones privacy! You are no libertarian my friend!
You think you are going to achieve something no one else has! Even though it has been tried again and again! You want to fix the corrupt immoral government! I can prove that will not work as it has already been tried for hundreds of years! The only way a government has changed is by force or non compliance!
"Barry, I'm sure you'll disagree with all of that but you won't change my mind and I fear I cannot change yours."... No sir you are wrong! Show me evidence that what is say is not true! Show me that the government can be fixed by doing the same thing people have done for centuries! Then I will happily admit I was wrong and run to the open arms of the state! And I'll plead for forgiveness for ever doubting them!... You on the other hand are saying that you just will not listen to the facts! You will ignore the evidence, because you will not change your mind! What a fool! I'm sorry I don't want to insult anybody but boy what kind of logic is this?
I only want to help you! I only want you to see that perhaps, just perhaps your values and thoughts are distorted! I care about everyone! You are all part of a sick joke!
When will you begin to listen? When they control what you eat? When they control what time you can go out? When they control if you can breed or not? They are already talking about removing fat kids from their parents! If you want a snap shot into the future just look at america! TSA touching your junk! lemonade stands shut down with kids arrested! The government selling guns to drug gangs! Forced vaccinations!
Or will you wake up when they are dragging you out your bed to take you to a gas chamber!?
TSA touching your junk! lemonade stands shut down with kids arrested! The government selling guns to drug gangs! Forced vaccinations!
Sounds just like last nights headlines on FoxNews?
Lol I don't watch fox news, but is that your way to try to dismiss that those things go on? Really? Was there much point for you to even post?... Still no reasoning, no logic, no evidence! Nothing!... Now i beg you, if you care about your own future, if you care about your possible childrens future, drop by at freedomainradio... Stefan molyneux will answer a lot of your questions! Why not just have a look? What can be harmed by doing so? At the very worst you might watse an hour or 2!... You think you may find things enlightening... I'm sorry i had to break it to you, but just like when you realised or were told santa claws isn't real, eventually you had to accept it to be true!
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