Ordinarily, I don't do petitions. Not because I don't believe in the particular cause, but because I have seen so many get rejected out of hand by the muppets in Westminster.
I am highlighting this one because, under their rules, if over 100,000 people sign a petition, it may get heard.
Who knows? It may be this one. I would be surprised, very surprised, if this one doesn't generate millions of signatures.
Even if, like me, you don't think it has legs, sign it anyway. It might get Pinky and Perky's attention. It's time they knew the depth of feeling on this issue.
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| UKIP has thrown its weight behind the Daily Express ePetition calling for a referendum on the EU, with just 100,000 names needed before the Government considers a debate in Parliament on the issue. UKIP Leader Nigel Farage urged all Party members and supporters to add their names to the ePetition as soon as possible. He said: "This is a real chance to force the Government into a proper, Parlimentary debate on an issue that affects everyone in the UK, every single day of their lives but on which they have been denied a say so far. "So we back the Daily Express call for an EU referendum and I hope every UKIP member, their families, friends anbd work colleagues will add their names to the ePetition. Use all the tools at your disposal to spread the word. Put it on your Facebook page, re-tweet on Twitter, whatever it takes, spread the word. "The Government has said it will consider any issue for Parliamentary debate if 100,000 people put their names to it. With the weight of feeling about the EU in this country, particularly over the economic bailouts, we could easily achieve 10 times that number! "This is also a chance for UKIP to call on support for the petition from across the board and put Nation before Party. At last, we could be given a say on the one big question: In or out? "So, please, add your name now!" Click here to sign the petitionCR. | |||
20 comments:
I'm afraid, Captain, under their rules, this is as much of a non-starter as all the other wastes of time that are spun as wonderful new ways of "opening up democracy".
Any petitions that get over 100k get shoved on a list for a backbench committee to "look at", and after "consideration" and "checking" by the relevant govt department, the committee may propose that the petitions be put it forward to a debate in the House but the government isn't bound to look at the proposal or discuss it anyway. It is entirely symbolic!
They will cherry-pick ideas that they already support, put them through to debate in the House and then crow about how successful it is.
Anything that the people want but the LibLabCon and their corporate money masters don't want will not get anywhere. They will be classed as "Offensive, joke or nonsense e-petitions" on the basis that they are provocative or "extreme" in their views.
Of course, we would then get the "government ignores electorate" situation, but then that's no different to the way things already are.
Guido is doing one on capital punishment as well. That won't stand a chance because even though it will get way more than the 100k needed, it goes against any number of international treaties (ECHR probably) which have been "statute-ised" by the HoC.
This comes across as hugely pessimistic but TPTB are, as ever, controlling debate within a narrow sphere. I could be wrong, but...
The one good thing is that at least it is "doing something", even though it won't amount to anything.
Regards
TSL
Agree with TSL.
"I am highlighting this one because, under their rules, if over 100,000 people sign a petition, it may get heard."
It's a non starter. It wouldn't matter if 1 million people signed the petition it may get seen but that's all that would happen.
Why on earth would the government give the British people a referendum on Europe? They are merely stalling the inhabitants of Britain until all the wise and troublemakers for them die out and they have full control over their globalist youngsters today in the future, who will have no problem with a no nation, one world people and culture world.
It is detrimental to our politician's careers to do anything that might damage the EU. UKIP are not in power and until they are they can huff and they can puff and they can try and blow down the house of stone, always failing.
Petitions are pointless.
Peaceful marches are pointless (Iraq war 2003 in London)
Violent marches will always be met with total oppression by the old bill and possibly the armed forces from home AND abroad.
What is the final solution then? One has to wonder don't they?
Harbinger
I don't trust Farage. He knows very well that the former leader of the UKIP, the fine Lord Pearson, had already handed over a petition with 900,000 signatures to the Queen - which was probably just put in the bin. Maj is up to her eyeballs in the High Treason we endure.
Here it is: http://campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/230304/CTE-petition.htm
I think TSL has probably nailed it.
But go and sign it anyway. What's to lose?
If TSL is right, it will mean more blatant evidence they don't listen to us, which in turn means a few more awakened sheeple will come on side.
It may be pointless, but it's hardly a big effort is it?
And putting your name on a Daily Express petition is hardly sticking your head over the parapet.
This is just saying No on a bit of paper, you don't even have to face anyone down.
Go sign it just for the hell of it.
My fear, is that we get a referendum, and due to a combination of unenlightened voters and downright fiddling the figures, we have to stay in. Then it will be even harder getting another referendum.
Be prepared for that one.
Look at Farage's history. You'll see that he was in banking (broker). He's making a killing as an EU anti EU MP. It's detrimental to him to give up his position. The same can also be said for Griffin. How much money is he making as an EU MP? He's making far more than he could ever have possibly dreamed of being in the NF or BNP.
It's all a game and everyone's looking to leaders to sort this problem out when it never will be.
People will only attain liberty and freedom when they are prepared to sacrifice all they have to achieve it and I mean EVERYONE, not one or two here and there.
Far too much of society are complicit in their daily lives. They don't want to give up their TV, their celebrity, their football, their technological gadgetry. They don't want to become like the Matrix and live the shit life. Instead they're prepared to be plugged into it, like the actor (Joe Pantoliano) from the film who betrayed his allies, because he hated the life, even though it was the truth and preferred the false reality he was used to.
So when you tell them what's really going on they shun away, because it's too much for them to bear, but more importantly might upset the status quo.
The freedom and liberty of the people will never be attained through the political world. The reason we have our slavery today is because of the political world. People still vote for the same political parties and politicians, even though they know that they're lying to them and will backtrack on their pre-election promises. In other words, the people are happy being sheep and happy to worship their abusers as all abused do in life.
It's when you realise this within society that you ask yourself a question: "Why should I sacrifice my life, my happiness for people who have no intention of seeing reality for what it is, foolishly believing as they do that the government is there to protect them and we're just going through a depression, created by non coincidental events?" What do you do? Do you continue or stop?
It's a tough question but one that people who find the truth, move through the truth movement will eventually ask themselves. It's a test of mental strength. It's a challenge of will power.
Do you become a misanthrope, like those whom you are against, or do you sacrifice your self and continually take the ridicule that will come as you try to wake people up around you?
Only you will know that answer.
Harbinger
Pesky beat me to it.
If people can't be arsed to fill in a 30 second petition we may as well pack up the tent and fuck off.
A call for action can (usually does) start small, then it snowballs, then we have a serious opposition.
But if folks are going to say "Well! UK Uncunt are going to Brum, so you can count me out!", or "I heard that there may be some BNP wallahs there, so I'm staying at home", or, "This shit never works", we are all fucked right from the off.
Fuck everyone else. If you think something may be the germ of an idea, follow through.
But FFS don't be pissing and moaning when it fails. That just means we learnt another way NOT to do it.
One of these fine days we will find the right idea. It will not suit every picky bastard out there but sometimes you just need to grit your teeth knowing the idea is bigger than you are.
If you are waiting for the perfect plan to hove into view, you'll sit there waiting until you are nothing but dust.
CR.
Cap'n,
If people can't be arsed to fill in a 30 second petition we may as well pack up the tent and fuck off.
It's called liberty and if people don't want to sign it then they don't have to sign it and you really shouldn't make people feel bad about not signing it.
I don't sign petitions because it's like pissing against a waterfall or farting against thunder - totally pointless. The petition will be put in the bin, even if looked at or not. I don't vote because my abstaining is my vote. The same can be said for petitions.
This battle against tptb will not be won through petitions, marches or political party intervention. The system's fuel is petitions, marches and political party intervention. If we want to defeat the system we have to stop giving it the fuel to breathe:
No payment of taxes.
No money in the banks.
No support for political parties.
No payment of mortgages.
Smashing of the banks and use of usury.
Remove government and law.
Anarchy for the UK (and world)
Until the above happens the system will continue to revolve, shafting the rest of society as it has since its establishment. You will always have psychopaths and in order to stop psychopathic manipulation of society, we mustn't allow them their positions of power with which to do so.
Harbinger
H,
My point is valid. It isn't designed to make anyone feel bad. I can't "make" people feel bad, they either do or they don't.
Apathy fucks us every time.
Are you seriously suggesting that people who don't want to sign a petition would willingly withhold their taxes, or remove their debt notes from the bank? Both of which require balls, determination and careful study?
I know exactly what you are saying, but, it is a giant leap from where we are today. I know that you know this as well.
I used to think that doing nothing was an option. It isn't. (Not for me, at least). You/we have to pick a fight with that disgusting government and we need to plan the fight well, then we need to win it.
Then, and only then, can we think about what comes next.
If my words appear harsh, that is not my intent.
I need troops alongside me, not an audience. This is a battle, not a spectator sport.
CR.
Cap'n,
Maybe using the phrase "making people feel bad" may have been the wrong choice of words. Maybe I used have use pushing people into a position they don't want to take for obvious reasons would have been better.
"Are you seriously suggesting that people who don't want to sign a petition would willingly withhold their taxes, or remove their debt notes from the bank? Both of which require balls, determination and careful study?"
Yes, I am. To go back to my previous reply on this article I quote:
"People will only attain liberty and freedom when they are prepared to sacrifice all they have to achieve it and I mean EVERYONE, not one or two here and there."
Signing a petition will do diddly squat cap'n and you know that. However withholding their taxes, removing their debt notes from the bank and not paying their mortgage will totally smash the banks and then watch the house of cards come tumbling to the ground.
It's what I've said in that if people want freedom from the oppression around they will have to make individual sacrifices at great costs and many/all are simply not prepared to take that step.
The cost of freedom is great cap'n and freedom won't be attained signing some useless piece of paper that says we disagree with the status quo.
And you do have many like minded people aside you in this battle and you need not ask if you do, for you know from the many replies that you have.
I no longer blog for the futility in blogging. It's pissing against a waterfall. Trying to speak to people about reality often results in them looking at you as though a giraffe was standing on your head. Waking people up is an incredibly hard thing to do and I think that they can only be woken up through life changing experience and hitting incredibly hardship. It makes them ask questions about reality but more importantly questions about themselves.
As I said, freedom will only be attained through personal sacrifice. Most people are not prepared to do so.
Harbinger
It makes me wonder what these folks are up to Ranty. UKIP and the Express want a referendum on leaving yet we know, and they must also, that we are not actualy in! We can't be as it's unconstitutional and an anathema to our common law. If a statute or treaty is unlawful then it's void and can be struck from the statute roll, so why a referendum?
I've signed, nothing to lose and the fuckwits than run the country will at least get an idea of the depth of feeling about the EU and the unelected morons that run it.
It has been said on EU referendum blog and other places and it is a valid point.
If a referendum comes now, before things get bad enough, every leftist liar in the nation will be turned loose with a budget of billions of our money to support the "stay-in" vote.
If we have a referendum the stay-ins will peddle reform and promise everything under the sun. The anti vote will be marginalised in every possible way.
If we have a vote we must win.
The time for an out vote is when the EU is more into its death throes.
@Anon 19:03
If a referendum comes now, before things get bad enough
Even if the DE petition does lead to a referendum it ain't going to happen any day soon. I really don't think we can survive as a nation for many more years if things go on the way they are going.
I wish I could believe that we can afford to sit around and wait for the EU to crash and burn, but they have so much more looting they can do I think it is many years away.
I agree 100% with Archie on what he's said.
Our membership to the EU is null & void and the fact that our politicians and the Queen signed the ratifications proves overwhelming treason of which should result in the instant executions of all involved. But the elite protect their own, so this will never happen. Society continues to be brainwashed.
Harbinger
Maybe that's what they are up to then.
The PTB must surely realise too, that a vote in their favour would be more likely sooner than later.
So they put up this petition on their MSM.
And voila: a referendum.
I happen to agree with Archie too. I made that point on here years ago.
Rather than abstain because it is unconstitutional, I would take part in their little sideshow, campaign til I drop, vote, and fully expect to get shafted. (I always expect the worst, it avoids disappointment)
If the whole EU is unconstitutional, then this referendum would just be a bag of shite too would it not. There's still no loss.
But as I said above, we must be prepared for this. As Anon19:03 said: If we have a vote we must win.
done my friend.
CR, for avoidance of doubt I was not and am not saying “do not do this”; ‘tis up to the individual whether to sign or not :-) and I get what you say on apathy. What I am saying is that to me this is another method of subverting effort. Someone on here (I think) quoted Chomsky a while back and I paraphrased it earlier: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum".
To me these epetitions are a microcosm of the wider political system. TPTB get you to think you have a say and that you can effect change, but in reality you can only play if you follow their rules, which are designed to ensure the status quo is maintained. Engagement is perpetuation.
What is to lose by signing? Probably nothing, possibly something. The requirement for signing any govt epetition is "Anyone signing your e-petition will need to provide their name, address and email". Whilst there is a common sense reason for this, I don’t give out my address (for various reasons) & I suspect a PO Box won't be allowed. Whilst any "worrying" over this may seem to demand rare joined up thinking by govt IT systems, there is a potential worry: Epetitions is part of Directgov, which was subsumed into the new Government Digital Service operated out the Cabinet Office as part of the Efficiency & Reform Group. Last month it was reported that the ERG has been ordering govt departments to cancel all IT contracts with SMEs and hand them over to….Capita! I’m digging around on that one but there’s no fucking way Capita are getting my name and address. We all know what else they do, after all.
This leads to another issue, albeit one that may be somewhat paranoid: as they require your name and address they will then know who supports what they consider to be "extreme" or "nonsense" views, such as restoring the death penalty or voting on the EU. These are not "extreme" things to those who support them, but they are to TPTB. They will also know where these people live. Maybe this is too paranoid and nothing will ever come of it. Then again, maybe it isn’t. We do have to be careful of overanalysing, lest we become so paranoid that we do nothing but batter at our keyboards in impotent rage. :-)
Further, it could be argued that both these petitions at the Express and Order Order are ineffective. Why? Because the epetitions site has its own rules for what are considered "valid signatories", as stated above: provision of a name, email address and postal address. Neither the Express nor Guido have made the address field mandatory, therefore there will be a plethora of signatories that are invalid according to the Epetitions rules. "Delivering" these signatories will automatically invalidate them because they do not adhere to the stated rules. While I suppose that takes care of my earlier issue, it’s also a good excuse for TPTB to "disregard" the petitions, innit?!
People must ultimately do as their conscience and thought dictate. The extent to which it matters depends on how far down the road people think we are; I am coming to think we are much further along than many realise, and only a mass starvation of the system will work. If people do wish to play, then signing Guido's capital punishment petition may also be worth it as the amount of international treaties and agreements that would need to be unravelled are vast, and doing so would take us out of the EU, Council of Europe and probably the UN all at once.
Parliament would have to vote on any of these debates; and primary legislation is needed to hold a referendum. That’s the final non-starter. Intransigence in the face of overwhelming public opinion may tip the balance in our favour…but things won’t get that far.
Regards
TSL
Pesky Anonymous,
The problem with my writings to many is my negativity, yet there is none whatsoever within. The optimist calls the realist a pessimist.
I may say that so and so will lose tonight's football match. My friend will call me negative. I'll say, not really, I overheard from a reliable source that the result's already been bought.
This is the reality.
I tend to put my energies into that which I know whatever I do will effect the outcome, not wasting it on that which I know most certainly won't. "What's there to lose by putting your name on the petition anyway?" one will ask and I will reply "what's there to win by putting your name on the petition?"
It's the glass is half full to the glass is half empty. The keyword here is half. We know two clear things - that the glass is most certainly not full, nor is it empty.
There are 62million people within the UK. So what on earth is a petition with 100,000 people going to do? Sure it proves that there are 100,000 people who want out of the UK, but what about the rest, that is the 61.9m left? Why would anyone entertain such a request of a referendum when to win they'd need the majority of people in the UK backing them?
How many people in the UK actually are interested in politics in the first place? The majority are overwhelmingly apathetic. And there are those who know that voting is a pantomime and a pointless waste of time.
The elite built the system. The elite control the system. The people work for the system. The people always protect the system. This is how it works and until people realise that the system is most certainly not there for them, but quite the opposite will they stop working for it and protecting it. However, as long as they're continually told by the system that the system is there for them and to protect them, thanks to the MSM, then nothing and I mean nothing will ever, ever, ever change. This is the reality.
Lastly and I feel this is the most important point. Our younger generations have been brainwashed and indoctrinated to accept globalism. The ploy to get Britain out of the EU can very well be deemed in their eyes as racist (modern definition). They don't want locks on immigration, because the overwhelming majority grew up with people from all over the world in their schools and tptb have played this to their advantage. Our younger generations don't want borders. They don't want nations and they're completely oblivious to their own indigenous culture because they believe that's racist too! LMAO!!!
You can't beat the system as long as the system controls people through MSM brainwashing and indoctrination.
Harbinger
Keywords: "may" "consider" "if".
Harbinger
Words are not my forte. In real life I'm the quiet bloke who sits in the corner and says very little. It's not that I don't understand what I feel etc., but that I find it difficult to articulate without people misunderstanding what I mean. I could address your comment properly, but it would take me several hours. Several hours that I do not have to spare. I hope you forgive me.
I can't just rap off comments like many seem to do.
I pretty much agree 99% with your analysis of the way things are. It's seems it's The Way Forward that we could argue and discuss til kingdom come.
I've always considered that we have no chance without numbers. And that waking people up and getting them onside is our most important task. Recently I have restricted my "preaching" to the EU, as it seems this is a subject most can relate to, and I also spare myself some of the eye rolling and glazed expressions.
Back to the petition:
You keep referring to this figure of 100 thou. The Express reports that it had 400 thou respondents to a recent poll. I wouldn't be surprised if there were considerably more than 100 thou signed it. The 100 thou figure in itself is self defeating, in that many will not sign if they see that it has gone over it, believing they don't need to. We are up against it all right.
Don't forget that the PTB also know that for every signee there are twenty more who agree with the sentiment but can't be arsed to sign.
This could scare the shit out of them, ergo: worth doing for the crack.
As for the PTB collecting names of the dissenters?
Like I give a fuck. What're they gonna do? Put me in the gulag? At least I will be in good company.
I believe that time could come, that we will have to fight when there is no chance of winning, because it is better to die a free man than a slave. I'm getting a head start.
Keep it peaceful
Pesky
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