tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post6685078550824241868..comments2023-09-10T16:35:32.651+01:00Comments on Captain Ranty-Lawful Rebel: Good News For GaysCaptain Rantyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-15052887989575799422011-01-21T14:08:23.616+00:002011-01-21T14:08:23.616+00:00Libertarians, maybe.
No Frankfurt School alumni h...Libertarians, maybe.<br /><br />No Frankfurt School alumni here though.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-24453191765410103022011-01-21T13:24:16.426+00:002011-01-21T13:24:16.426+00:00Most of you sound like liberals, any thing goes (F...Most of you sound like liberals, any thing goes (Frankfurt school)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-15458342365333127692011-01-20T15:29:26.397+00:002011-01-20T15:29:26.397+00:00Thanks Rob.
I have never felt the need to announc...Thanks Rob.<br /><br />I have never felt the need to announce my sexuality either. But given the bigotry that exists in the world I would be less inclined to shout about it if I was gay.<br /><br />It seems that only the "militant" people (in any organisation) want to jump up and down about it, but I do agree that there was more need 30 years ago to highlight the gay viewpoint.<br /><br />You are right though, in some ways the more minority groups shout, the less we hear. And I doubt that too many bigotted minds are changed, the opposite, in fact, I think the bigots just dig their heels in.<br /><br />Thanks again for a thoughtful comment. The more we know the less we need to hate and fear, right?<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-28688863187806122602011-01-20T15:12:07.376+00:002011-01-20T15:12:07.376+00:00CR, I don't find it tricky "walking in ga...CR, I don't find it tricky "walking in gay shoes". My sexuality is a small part of my identity and not one that I find particularly relevant outside my bedroom.<br /><br />I run my own business and tend not to start meetings by announcing my sexual preferences in the same way that I don't specify my musical or culinary likes - just not relevant to the situation.<br /><br />My partner & I have stayed in a variety of hotels without any issues over the years, but then I have also shared rooms with male colleagues to save money on business trips (ok, twin rather than double rooms, but hey).<br /><br />The Bulls made their policy clear on the their website. Yes, I think they are a couple of biggoted twits who will probably loose money in the long-term as a result of their chosen position - I mean, they are also rejecting straight unmarried couples who make up a pretty large % of their potential client base. However, it is their home, so their rules should prevail. I would feel different about a large hotel taking this attitude, although not in say Saudi or Quatar (neither of which I have any interest in visiting btw).<br /><br />As for Stonewall, they come from a good place - being gay in the UK even 30 years ago could be pretty tough & Stonewall and the like have played a big part in bringing about positive change - but I think that there is a real danger of turning off the great British public by overdoing things - in my experience, the vast majority are pretty tolerant - either that, or chose to hide their feelings as a courtesy which I appreciate.<br /><br />Hope that clarified, any other questions, just ask!<br /><br />Rob.Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-6524147573186523942011-01-20T13:03:05.705+00:002011-01-20T13:03:05.705+00:00I have an old book (possibly about 100 years old) ...I have an old book (possibly about 100 years old) - which states that in English law if you run a hotel you cannot discriminate against who you have in. If it's a private guesthouse you can. Something like that anyway if I remember right !ellie12022https://www.blogger.com/profile/09507293692728935129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-36583050677539749012011-01-19T20:28:38.480+00:002011-01-19T20:28:38.480+00:00CR & Rosie
I does seem convenient that Stonew...CR & Rosie<br /><br />I does seem convenient that Stonewall had complained to this couple in August 2008.<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336523/Hazelmary-Peter-Bull-sued-refusing-allow-gay-couple-share-double-bed.html<br /><br />Only a month later the telephone booking occurred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-71176481897031513662011-01-19T14:22:02.752+00:002011-01-19T14:22:02.752+00:00The defence for the Bulls turns on their Christian...The defence for the Bulls turns on their Christian beliefs.<br /><br />Jesus - the Christ - believed that nobody should be judgemental of another and should welcome all and forgive their transgressions: even those who condemned, tortured and executed him. He made a point of associating with religious and social outcasts.<br /><br />Whatever the Bull's beliefs, they had nothing to do with Christ, they are then just bigotry.<br /><br />The issue of property rights turns on whether the property in question was private or public.<br /><br />An hotel is in fact a public place offered to and open to the public.<br /><br />They are entitled to their beliefs and opinions in private, but when they take them into a public place and try to apply them to or impose them on the public, the matter then becomes public, a matter for the law, custom and common decency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-41681755135823198302011-01-19T03:34:07.008+00:002011-01-19T03:34:07.008+00:00I agree with Rob the Gay. You are a guest in an ho...I agree with Rob the Gay. You are a guest in an hotel. There would be no problem with anyone with a shred of decency taking 2 single rooms - unless they deliberately targeted the establishment in the hope of a payout which seems likely since the house rules were on the website.richardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-7718086887338898922011-01-18T18:23:50.393+00:002011-01-18T18:23:50.393+00:00just to clarify what ive said because there is ple...just to clarify what ive said because there is plenty of room for misunderstanding on such an issue.<br /><br />for the record i believe the libertarian ideal/ethos/principle has its logical conclusion in anarchy and that is no bad thing. that is to say i take the principles as immutable and avoid compromise even if ideas appear a little extreme.<br />i dont like adjectival libertarians. by which i mean conservatives (small c) hiding their regressive, reactionary intolerance and privilege behind a handy defence. of course i am not suggesting there are any here but you know the type.<br />i do not subscribe to libertarianism because it offers an end to enforced tolerance but neither do i believe that the idea necessitates intolerance as leftist critics seem to think as they confuse libertarianism for neo-conservatism.<br /><br />i accept that being on the low side of 30 my attitudes may well have been formed by the social engineering.<br /><br />a consistent application of libertarian principles does therefore leave me personally a little uncomfortable on this issue but i understand that what appears to be an oppressive position to some does not compromise individual liberty - in fact it strengthens it.<br />put as simply as i can - libertarianism would not force the hoteliers to do anything against their will. likewise libertarianism would never have prohibited homosexuality in the first place. ironically this illiberality was enacted by the Christian state and can still be seen in such insupportable puritanism as the minimum pricing bollocks for alcohol. i dont buy the idea put forth by some 'libertarians' that back in the good old days when we ran everything according to christian values the world was a more liberal place. such regressive attitudes would only permit liberty for some.<br /><br />as an aside to CR on the subject of discrimination - i believe the hoteliers should be able to erect just such a sign as you describe. maximum liberty limited only by the non aggression axiom would permit discrimination and i would argue that this is a good thing. discrimination seems to be pretty tightly tied to liberty. to limit one may well limit the other. think of some other 'discriminations' that might get banned - hierarchical exam results, levels of pay, even prices. theyre all forms of discrimination so taken for granted that most wouldnt even consider them to be discriminatory. but without them we would be under full totalitarian communist authority. the difference between these (currently) 'non-discriminations' and the 'bad-discriminations' is perhaps that some are rationally justifiable. <br />merely leaving individuals free to behave even 'badly' such as by engaging in irrational discrimination does not mean that everyone suddenly will. this negative view of human nature is properly fabian.<br />the freedom to discriminate and even signal the fact would benefit, in this case, unmarried couples in that they could avoid the irrational prejudice and stay somewhere they would feel more welcome. i imagine the majority of businesses would choose to maximise their earning potential by welcoming one and all.<br /><br />yes i am disrespectful of religion as i dont find it rational or convincing in any other way. i wouldnt prevent anyone from believing or practicing whatever they liked so long as they left me alone too. religion as i said has been the root of iliberality far too often in history. im free to be disrespectful as you are free to be even more disrespectful to me. maybe that makes me a fabian drone and part of the attack on traditional liberal values, maybe not.willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13852417362930313981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-77672685896118765212011-01-18T16:55:42.814+00:002011-01-18T16:55:42.814+00:00Anon,
Think of it as a contest of wills.
They pu...Anon,<br /><br />Think of it as a contest of wills.<br /><br />They push as hard as they can and when we bite back, they know they have crossed a line.<br /><br />(I think that's a record! Three mixed metaphors in the same sentence!)<br /><br />Then, of course, the skin the cat differently.<br /><br />We end up losing. Always.<br /><br />The game is (so far) rigged in their favour.<br /><br />This will not last.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-81165407527933226512011-01-18T16:25:04.731+00:002011-01-18T16:25:04.731+00:00The law now requires that if a couple of fags want...The law now requires that if a couple of fags want to stay you must abet and encourage it.<br /><br />But if a couple wants to stay who has fags, then it is morally imperative to discriminate against them as smoking must be banned.<br /><br />The state has displaced religion, God is dead and a fag is no longer a fag.<br /><br />Such a topsy-turvy brave new world order.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-78721159721151013062011-01-18T15:57:52.760+00:002011-01-18T15:57:52.760+00:00Rosie,
I agree that they could have been used but...Rosie,<br /><br />I agree that they could have been used but I just couldn't find any hard evidence to chuck into the mix. It would not surprise me in the least.<br /><br />FWIW, I think the social engineering is already complete. It's just that some folks (like us) refuse to accept it.<br /><br />They have probably allowed for some dissent though.<br /><br />See you in the gulag.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-38556966934718170862011-01-18T15:28:56.441+00:002011-01-18T15:28:56.441+00:00CR you say there's no evidence to say the gay ...CR you say there's no evidence to say the gay couple weren't involved with some group or other. Yet they decided to sue the couple and received £1800. That's a lot of money for a small business to pay. Surely no normal couple would want to sue a place for this amount?<br /><br />I could understand if it had been a few hundred.<br /><br />If I don't want anyone to enter my home I say no, but they were too open and gave the reasons. Didn't they offer them a twin-bedded room?<br /><br />They should have considered themselves lucky to find somewhere these days that takes dogs. There's certainly no where around here these days.<br /><br />And as for religion, that's a choice. This will affect Christians too of course, because all their beliefs have been ridiculed.<br /><br />The social engineering is nearly complete.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-50242969317227667522011-01-18T15:26:30.568+00:002011-01-18T15:26:30.568+00:00WoaR,
Yes, I spotted that.
I always end up alone...WoaR,<br /><br />Yes, I spotted that.<br /><br />I always end up alone in hotels as I travel a lot in my work. I think I am discriminated against as a singleton because I have to pay more for my room.<br /><br />Can I sue someone?<br /><br />CR.<br /><br />PS-I snore too. Allegedly. Never heard myself snoring, actually, so it could be a scurrilous lie.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-63775862905941117252011-01-18T15:15:03.842+00:002011-01-18T15:15:03.842+00:00It is also the case that they did not allow unmarr...It is also the case that they did not allow unmarried guests to share a room. As they made it clear, you could stay in the hotel but only as two individuals, not as a couple sharing. <br /><br />It would be interesting if they ran the hotel on the basis that all guests had to stay in single rooms, since that would not entail any discrimination. <br /><br />It's a bit of a nuisance re-arranging a hotel to reflect this, but I bet there's a market for it. Apparently I snore, so I can think of a pair of customers immediately. As it happens I want to go to Cornwall.Woman on a Rafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08897415591130901416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-9036745161726622932011-01-18T14:55:49.666+00:002011-01-18T14:55:49.666+00:00OR,
Surely not.
That would be discriminating aga...OR,<br /><br />Surely not.<br /><br />That would be discriminating against the straights.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-60630919818016951212011-01-18T14:55:04.516+00:002011-01-18T14:55:04.516+00:00Max,
Now THERE is an issue I should have a crack ...Max,<br /><br />Now THERE is an issue I should have a crack at.<br /><br />Just how paranoid they (Stonewall) are about it all.<br /><br />If I were gay (I'm not saying I'm not, because I believe that means I am just in denial, I think) I reckon I would really just like to be left alone to live my life as normally as I could, without making a big fuss. Pretty much the way I do now, as an allegedly straight man.<br /><br />It's tricky trying to walk a mile in gay shoes. Maybe Rob can tell us. If he wants to. No pressure.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-21902136299247932322011-01-18T14:52:57.888+00:002011-01-18T14:52:57.888+00:00Will they now be required to place a board in larg...Will they now be required to place a board in large letters saying Sodomites welcome? Just asking.Oldrightiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03192587284458430556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-27254027559397252772011-01-18T14:48:19.197+00:002011-01-18T14:48:19.197+00:00Rob,
That is the problem though, is it not? How d...Rob,<br /><br />That is the problem though, is it not? How does the owner communicate his/her likes and dislikes?<br /><br />If the Bulls had a sign that said "No Irish, No Gays, No Dogs, No Jehovahs" that would have been discriminatory. And that is not on.<br /><br />It's a delicate issue and it is not without embarrassment for both sides.<br /><br />Although I am banging the drum for property rights it doesn't sound very libertarian, does it?<br /><br />This is a two pipe problem.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-45066572114683253222011-01-18T14:26:31.327+00:002011-01-18T14:26:31.327+00:00CR - good post - I happen to be gay and agree tota...CR - good post - I happen to be gay and agree totally with what you say. Their property, their rules - simples. Also,it would be far more convenient (& less embarassing all round) for them to be honest up front than to turn up on the doorstep and then find out & have to find somewhere else to stay.<br /><br />Keep up the good work,<br /><br />Rob.Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-70894630998025653052011-01-18T14:08:27.939+00:002011-01-18T14:08:27.939+00:00Will,
Good comment and spot on.
If you allow the...Will,<br /><br />Good comment and spot on.<br /><br />If you allow the owner to decide, you instantly remove all the other arguments. <br /><br />The owner doesn't (and shouldn't) care what "society" thinks. It has nothing to do with "society".<br /><br />My house, my rules, is all that need apply.<br /><br />The discrimination tag can be avoided as long as the owners do not state their preferences.<br /><br />Once they do, (as in this case), a whole new can of worms is opened.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-63697105982125576772011-01-18T14:00:50.592+00:002011-01-18T14:00:50.592+00:00The one and only natural law, the ultimate first p...The one and only natural law, the ultimate first principle that can be deduced by rational objectivity is self ownership. From this principle can be derived the non aggression axiom and property rights. Everything after that is completely made up and entirely dependent on consent. Rules can only be agreed upon mutually and adhered to voluntarily.<br />Rights do not exist. Whether you call them human rights or natural rights they are a fiction. If they were objective truth then how come they change with geography and history? Did you know according to the UN its a 'human right' to have a holiday? <br />If we're going to continue with a coercive monopoly legal system influenced by a not even perfect form of mob rule, itself open to influence by the very lawmakers themselves, then we had better get used to this crap.<br />Now let me say that I do not care which of the sky pixies you believe in or who you want to kiss and cuddle. Both seem to make some people happy and so long as noone is being coerced what's the problem?<br />And therein lies the rub. Irrational as their belief in oppressive rules from the sky may be these individuals cannot be forced to accept anyone into their property.<br />This is difficult for me as an extreme defender of property rights and the private individual as it puts me on the 'side' of those whose beliefs originally prohibitted two sovereign individuals doing whatever they Damn well like with each other.<br />There is no need to coerce these god botherers into welcoming people they don't like in order to 'reflect changing social attitudes'. You don't force an industry to reflect the desires of its customers - it happens naturally.willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13852417362930313981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-45226054985858707592011-01-18T13:47:07.957+00:002011-01-18T13:47:07.957+00:00"Oh yeah, tell that to Garry Glitter...;)&quo..."Oh yeah, tell that to Garry Glitter...;)"<br /><br />I don't know. I imagine sales of "Do you wanna be in my gang" probably rocketed in the Paedo community....<br /><br />There seem to be enough child rapists around to put him back at No 1 in the Hit Parade*.<br /><br />CR.<br /><br />*Showing my age there. Damn!Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-58377994869231923532011-01-18T13:30:58.368+00:002011-01-18T13:30:58.368+00:00CR said, "No such thing as bad publicity, rem...CR said, "No such thing as bad publicity, remember?"<br /><br />Oh yeah, tell that to Garry Glitter...;)I am Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04101757111187294588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3271194216217582823.post-37280449114107201952011-01-18T13:26:03.849+00:002011-01-18T13:26:03.849+00:00Stan,
Business is business. But I wonder how many...Stan,<br /><br />Business is business. But I wonder how many homophobes, (married ones, of course), will now flock to their hotel as a result?<br /><br />No such thing as bad publicity, remember?<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.com